1/2 Ton Arbor Press For Pricking Iron

[DavidL]

Im looking to use an arbor press for pressing a pricking iron into 2 layers of 3/4 oz veg tanned glued together. Has anyone done this with any success? 1/2 ton strong enough for pricking iron and stamps to be pressed.

[Macca]

I already posted in your last post about this.

It won't work, the tool is not designed for this

You will damage the teeth

[Not Awl Together]

Sorry,

I'm coming at this from a little behind in the conversation and am a bit confused about the need or desire to use a press to drive a pricking iron to mark your leather for stitch locations through a couple of layers 3/4 oz. Veg.

Would you care to elaborate on your need?

This may be a dumb question and may have been brought up in an earlier conversation, that said, have you viewed Nigel Armitage's video demonstrating making stitch holes through 4 layers of 8/9 oz. Veg. ?

[DavidL]

Im moving into an apartment and the way I have it set up now it will make too much noise.

I have viewed his videos and the noise is more of the issue. I have been able to get the holes to line up properly through some practice.

Are you positive that the iron teeth will get damaged using a 1/2 ton arbor even with a poundo board? I have a dixon iron and the teeth are a lot stronger than vergez and looks like it would be able to hold up if I don't use with all my strength.

The iron is 7 SPI, and the teeth aren't that small. Only thing is I don't know if the press will be able to make an impression like a hammer would without distorting the leather.

It is not the traditional way but its one of the few options, other is to find a way to absorb the sound from the iron while hammering

[Macca]

the problem with using a press like this is to do with the taper on the irons.

the further you press the more pressure builds on the side of the teeth (the taper applies increasing pressure to the leather the further in it goes), there is only a little leather between the teeth & leather only compresses a finite amount, keep applying pressure and it will break (the more teeth on the iron, the worse this will be)

whereas a hammer/mallet has some give to it, the hammer will bounce off the iron rather than applying all the force into the iron.

Also, whether you use a hammer/press/ whatever.. If you punch all the way through with a pricking iron you will distort the leather too much (again, the taper spreads the leather more the further it goes in) & you will find the tool gets stuck a lot, removing it distorts the leather.

If striking noise is the issue I'd look at a pricking wheel (not like the US ones, a European one that makes marks like a pricking iron)

Use the wheel to mark the stitches then awl to open them up.

[BDAZ]

Macca. Have you actually tested your "theory" or is it pure speculations. I just tested some pricking irons on a suitable poundo board with a TWO ton press on 9/10 oz leather with ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS!

The only issue will be that the 1/2 ton press does not have the clearance for a standard pricking iron handle, nor does the one ton. Consequently you will have to trim the handle or purchase one with or have the ram modified with a hole bored to accommodate the handle. A small set screw would keep the iron in the ram.

I think it's an excellent alternative to eviction. Also great for cracking nuts!

Cya

Bob

[RavenAus]

I use an arbor press all the time with mine. As long as the leather isn't too thick it's fine. I don't sew at high SPI and I can see there'd be issues with that, but for what I do, no worries See Ian Atkinsons video here, about 1:05 in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0EL7K2NhYs

Just see Bobs answer and yeah, my press is a big old 3 ton model I got from work when they were closing a section. Sometimes I wish it were smaller but hey, it works!

Edited May 21, 2014 by RavenAus

[Macca]

well, Ive seen a 10 SPI pricking iron break when the owner tried to force it through too thick leather

a press would apply even more pressure so I would say the chance of damaging the tool is very high.

[Macca]

I use an arbor press all the time with mine. As long as the leather isn't too thick it's fine. I don't sew at high SPI and I can see there'd be issues with that, but for what I do, no worries See Ian Atkinsons video here, about 1:05 in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0EL7K2NhYs

Just see Bobs answer and yeah, my press is a big old 3 ton model I got from work when they were closing a section. Sometimes I wish it were smaller but hey, it works!

thats not a pricking iron, the teeth are not tapered, they are parallel so it will go through thicker leather without distorting

[RavenAus]

10 spi - well THAR'S yer problem!

Seriously, people do 10 spi? Way too much time on their hands I want to sew that fine I'll use a machine. 6 or 7 spi is fine in a press.

[DavidL]

I think I would prefer the iron better than the pricking wheel. The reason is the iron I feel makes for a better stitch since it makes a deep impression and the stitches sink in. I find when I hit the iron lightly to simulate the pricking wheel that the stitches look more like it was done with an overstitch. I don't know for sure if the wheel can make an impression as deep as the pricking iron or halfway into the leather. If only it was cheap so I could give it a try. Thanks for the info I most likely would have damaged my dixon iron, which i have been try to upgrade to a vergez for a while now.

Anyone try the arbor press and use very slight force just for an impression that isn't deep but is indented. Anyone tried a pricking wheel with good success while stitching?

Or has a set up where there is no noise while hammering in an apartment.

[RavenAus]

Down to terminology then Macca. It's what I use, I don't worry about the correct term I just want a decent, fast and easy stitching hole.

David, that's what I use an overstitch wheel for. Lightly case if you want a good deep impression and run the overstitcher down the line. No worries. I want holes, I punch em in with the iron or I use the awl. Iron's faster

[DavidL]

okay I think I'll try the press. 3 tons presses here are expensive - 200+...

Do you guys mind posting a picture so I can see how well the impressions come out.

Would a one ton have enough vertical clearance and pressure for 6-9 ounces of veg?

Most manufactures don't state the clearance which isn't helpful.

[Macca]

Down to terminology then Macca. It's what I use, I don't worry about the correct term I just want a decent, fast and easy stitching hole.

its not really terminology, its a completely different tool

David is using a dixon pricking iron, they are tapered tools for marking, you can do very fine stitching with them.

yours is designed for punching holes so I can see a press working ok with that

10 spi - well THAR'S yer problem!

Seriously, people do 10 spi? Way too much time on their hands I want to sew that fine I'll use a machine. 6 or 7 spi is fine in a press.

10 SPI is pretty standard harness sizing over here..

I so some stuff at 12, even 14 at times

[RavenAus]

What is it you actually want to do David? I use a stitching iron (diamond hole type like Tandys) to punch holes through. If I just want an impression and will use an awl, I use an overstitching wheel. I don't use an iron to make marks

[Macca]

I think I would prefer the iron better than the pricking wheel. The reason is the iron I feel makes for a better stitch since it makes a deep impression and the stitches sink in. I find when I hit the iron lightly to simulate the pricking wheel that the stitches look more like it was done with an overstitch. I don't know for sure if the wheel can make an impression as deep as the pricking iron or halfway into the leather. If only it was cheap so I could give it a try. Thanks for the info I most likely would have damaged my dixon iron, which i have been try to upgrade to a vergez for a while now.

Anyone try the arbor press and use very slight force just for an impression that isn't deep but is indented. Anyone tried a pricking wheel with good success while stitching?

Or has a set up where there is no noise while hammering in an apartment.

I use a wheel for 14 SPI David

you can get a good impression with the wheel (again, not the US overstitch types, the euro ones that do proper slanted marks)

[RavenAus]

Macca, I knew there was a reason I didn't want to get into saddlery Well, that and the fact that ALL the other leatherworkers in southeast QLD seem to be in that field so the market is a tad crowded For my customers that small a stitch is a disadvantage - they don't believe it's hand stitched. I've actually had better sales with less spi as people can 'see' it's hand stitched. For some of the Steampunk and Dystopian pieces I've been asked to deliberately make the stitching ragged, like it was done with just "a sharp knife and a needle" as one customer wanted.

Mostly I use the diamond point iron though.

[DavidL]

To be honest I can see Macca's point of view where the iron will break if i am pressing down on 12 oz stiff vegtan and if there is a defect or hairline crack in the iron I could break the iron. However, the pricking iron when hit down has worked the best so I will have to try the press if I can find one at a decent price. I also have a newer iron and the teeth have no taper to it compared to the older irons. If it breaks I'm out 50 dollars, but I can get a brand new vergez pricking iron which I have been waiting to upgrade to and I may just end up going camping where I can be as loud as I want.

[Macca]

love the camping idea !

[Not Awl Together]

David,

As an option to possibly consider, have you considered a heavy substrate to work on and/or under your Poundo board ?

IME, a heavy working base tends deaden and not vibrate or transmit noise through it as much as a lighter one whilst working on it...... much like a blacksmiths anvil doesn't hop about while hammering out metalwork. The steadiness of a heavy, solid work platform tends to also make other tasks easier as well.........

Hope this may help,

BTW.....there are U.S. Made pricking wheels that do have slanted /////// stitch marks out there if you do your leg work, I happen to own a few made by Osborne myself........

Regards,

N.A.T

Edited May 21, 2014 by Not Awl Together

[DavidL]

I don't know if that would work in my situation. I have to get new furniture and all that, but I don't think Im get a heavy table that I could mount the heavy metal on. I have seen people use a log and that could deaden the sound, so i might as well give that a try.

[DavidL]

The thing with the pricking iron is that it gives a channel to place your awl into. I can't be sure but with a overstitch/pricking wheel it is harder to get the awl to pierce straight because there is no channel.

[Not Awl Together]

Since everyone's situation is unique I only offered the suggestion as a possible option.

I can only speak from my personal experience, therefore, my perspective and subsequent response............

Workbenches or work platforms/stations for specific tasks of substance though initially expensive are a long term investment in your craft.

Historically speaking, In my craft, apprentices were required to build their own which they later did journeyman work on for the remainder of their careers and were tailored to their body size and task specific needs.

This may be a poor analogy but, I couldn't imagine rebuilding a auto engine on something akin to a dining room table....

Others mileage may vary......

Regards,

N.A.T

[DavidL]

I understand. When I move out I will for sure get a work bench and a tool rack to store my tools.