Malicious Customer,advice Needed.

[Redochre]

Again thank you everyone for your great advice,I would like to add quotes and reply but I'm using a tablet & it will get stroppy if I try.

*UPDATE* Etsy have told the customer to send photographic proof that the wallet differs from the description. Considering the photos of the trifold are of the actual wallet that was sent she would be really pulling miracles if she managed that.

A note about pricing.... I charged what I thought my quality of craftsmanship is worth & I had the leather for a good price.

[ConradPark]

Seems like it's gonna get sorted to your favor, good! About your pricing, while it is good to be modest and I'm sure that from a customer perspective most will be thrilled (about your prices) I think all the people saying that you price your stuff too low - including myself - look at it from another perspective. To put it bluntly it is prices like that, that make it difficult for leather workers that doesn't do this as a hobby to make a living. If your stuff was simpler, machine sewn with no edge work, fine - but no professional (meaning doing leather work for a living) would be able to put in that effort and sell it for those prices (unless it was wholesale). And this is meant as a compliment!

[DavidL]

selling it too low will make people think that is the going rate for these goods. You can't just go from a piece of leather is this price and it takes this long to do it so thats my price. The fact that its a wallet gives it some value, well made gives it value, handmade gives it value, and made not in China gives it value. If you don't charge for that its the same as your leather costing 10 dollars and you write it in your costs as 5 dollars, your throwing away money that people are willing to pay, which also hurts you. It gives consumers the thought that made in USA by hand is the same price as made in China..

I've seen this done from a seller on etsy which is based in thailand. The redeeming factor for him only is that the currency of their money is less so they can sell for that price and still do really well for themselves. However it sets the standard so low that its almost ridiculous for others to compete and some do compete and have to charge the same price. So etsy is more known now as a place to find cheap stuff, like 5 dollar jewelry and 15- 35 dollar wallets, 5 dollars socks and what not. You can still find some places that sell at 120 a iPhone case or 150 that do well, so theres still that.

[ConradPark]

David L, while I do agree with you in general about crafters not putting enough value into the products, I just wish people would stop pointing finger to a specific country or region when it comes to blaming that things getting sold for under cutting prices. While of course this exist from the countries you're mentioning, the same thing happens everywhere including Canada and USA. Now I'm very aware that this is a sensitive subject and I have covered this discussion elsewhere so I am not trying to start a fight or accusing any one, it's just my own 'two cents' that blaming specifics about a general subject is not that different than when people start blaming specific religious people or mentioning that it would have to do with the color of skin. Dangerous way of reasoning as there are plenty of people out there that take that kind of talk to pervert their own ignorant thinking. Take UK and Etsy for example, while the majority of the people that sells leather goods (or anything else) are not maybe the cheapest on that platform I would say that 99% (give or take) are still selling it for under the value for similar things sold on the high street or even the markets in London, and now I'm including the bad stuff too. This is because as already mentioned, most of those sellers are just doing it as a hobby or as a way to get some extra income. It's frustrating for the professionals but at the same time this is how life works everywhere. Those 99% have nothing to do with the asian market. And this is from one nation i Europe that has a LARGE presence on Etsy. Now, I hope neither you or any one else are not taking any offense as that was not my intent.

Edited July 13, 2014 by ConradPark

[NVLeatherWorx]

@ConradPark

No offense taken on that and I agree that there are even some leather workers right here in the US that are doing their fair share of the "low ball" price game which does, as you so graciously stated, make it very difficult for a true Professional Craftsman/Maker to sell their products at a fair and reasonable price to sustain business operations. However, the comments regarding anything that is made in a foreign country, China and the bulk of Asia especially, is intended to bring attention to the practices from within those regions to flood the market with cheap priced, and to put it very frankly, cheaply made products, which achieved through their "slave labor" styled practices. That is not to say that every leather worker from those areas, or any other area for that matter, is involved in that type of practice as I know some true Professionals within our craft that charge properly for their products and they too have the same issues that we do and they also make the same comments regarding the difficulty to try and compete against these practices. The main thing here is that we all have to accept the fact that no matter where we are in the world, there is someone just "down the road from us" that is selling similar type items for way below what we do. Whether they are a hobby worker or a large corporation that just pumps out substandard quality items to flood the market with volume, they exist and it is only fitting that they be called out for their practices.

With regards to the whole Etsy thing, they are just one of the several outlets where we can find the cheap, substandard quality, flood of garbage that is on sale for below "rock bottom" pricing. I frequently notice that most of what you find from leather workers on Etsy is nothing more than the popular kits from Tandy or other such sources and that the majority of the designs/patterns are what actually come with the kit. These items are even assembled using the thread and/or lace that is included with the kit (and I can tell you for a fact that these are not their premium materials). Most of the finished products are barely priced over the actual retail price that was paid for the kits, and a few have some more realistic prices that reflect the level of detail put into the finished product. The bottom line here is that anyone trying to make a living on using kits as their source of materials is not a professional, regardless of the level of craftsmanship that is put into the finished product. A professional craftsman selects every piece used in the fabrication of a finished product from raw materials which in our case is sides, shoulders, skins, etc. and we have these items readily available. A professional is always finding new ways to make an item and the majority of patterns (product patterns that is) are their own creations or at least collaborations. We always find a way to improve our product and we frequently change up our product lines just to make sure that we can maintain our niche market. This is what justifies a proper price and nobody who is a true Professional should ever think twice about their pricing. We conduct business professionally and we are fair with our clients but we will not tolerate PITA clients nor allow them to influence others. If that means that we recognize them for what they really are and then can make them realize how their conduct results in being held accountable, then whatever it takes is what we need to do. I don't tolerate any client or even a potential client who presents themselves the way the customer associated with this thread did; I post my policies for all to see and if they don't like them they can move on. If they make a purchase and then immediately try to create an issue I just refer them to the agreement that they acknowledged and then will contact them and ask them what part they didn't understand. Not to be rude or offensive to them but if a person indicates that they have read and understand the contents of an agreement they are legally bound by that agreement whether they read it or not. That is pretty much the law around the world when it comes to business operations but the policies that protect us are the most forgotten area of setting up any business outlet, Etsy, Ebay, or even our own websites. If you don't let the people know UP FRONT how you conduct your business and what they should expect, you don't have a leg to stand on when an issue such as this arises. On the other hand, if you have it all laid out for the world to see then when you get the "problem child" customer you just remind them of what they agreed to and move on. If you get a threat of legal action all you do is tell them that you will see them in court along with the documentation related to the sell and they all of the sudden shut up because they realize that you are serious about your business. You can't say that for those "market flooders" though, they are just out to get that quick buck and move to the next "bargain basement sucker".