Singer Class 95 Question?

[highnoonhunter]

Hey everyone,

Will a Singer Class 95 handle 138 thread?

There's one here for sale locally and I thought I'd snatch it up if it would.

My old class 15-88 runs 92 thread great, but I need something to use 138 on some items.

[Wizcrafts]

Hey everyone,

Will a Singer Class 95 handle 138 thread?

There's one here for sale locally and I thought I'd snatch it up if it would.

My old class 15-88 runs 92 thread great, but I need something to use 138 on some items.

No. This is a garment class machine. It will not handle/tension #138 thread without great difficulty and inconsistency in the stitches.

[highnoonhunter]

Thanks Wiz!

I was thinking it probably wouldn't, but was unsure. They only want $100 for the machine, table, motor, etc., sewing and ready to go, so I thought it was worth a shot, but Oh well.....................

Are there any of the older Singer industrial class machines that will handle 138?

One pops up for sale here every so often.

[Wizcrafts]

Are there any of the older Singer industrial class machines that will handle 138?

One pops up for sale here every so often.

Are you just looking for old junk? I guess a Singer 111w155 will handle #138 thread, top and bottom. Be aware that they have small bobbins, no reverse and very strange stitch length adjusters.

[DavidL]

singer 45k. can sew through leather. some people get them handed down and are just trying to free up space and are willing to let it go for 100-200 bucks.

[highnoonhunter]

Are you just looking for old junk? I guess a Singer 111w155 will handle #138 thread, top and bottom. Be aware that they have small bobbins, no reverse and very strange stitch length adjusters.

Uhhh......... Well no, I'm not actually looking for junk. But considering I bought a rusted up singer 15 88 and converted it to a hand crank and it sews my wallet innards just fine, and 2 oz overlays on 5 oz oil tanned just fine, I might consider buying junk!!

singer 45k. can sew through leather. some people get them handed down and are just trying to free up space and are willing to let it go for 100-200 bucks.

Thanks David! I'll keep a look out for one.

[Wizcrafts]

I wasn't trying to put down your future machine. Just stating what I have found to be a fact many times over.

If you don't mind fixing up old iron machines, the 111w155 will be one to watch for. A lot of them went to upholstery shops. The sewers in these shops consider time as money. So, they equip their walking foot machines with clutch motors having 4" pulleys. Since many Singer machines also have a 4" pulley (and even smaller), the machines spins at 1:1 with the motor (or faster). For the average 110 volt clutch motor that equals 1725 rpm (hence, spm). Divide that by 60 and you get almost 29 stitches per second! At 5 stitches per inch (typical for a Singer 111), you can sew about 6 inches per second.

In case you were wondering, these machines were built to max out at about 2,000 rpm. Running them at 90% for 20 years or more tends to wear out the moving parts and bearings and the drive belt inside the 111 machines. You may get such a machine for a great cash price, then find it necessary to spend possibly a couple hundred or more to replace worn out parts.

If you do buy a machine with a clutch motor with a big pulley and have trouble controlling it, you'll want to swap it out for new servo motor, which is usually very easy to control at a wide range of speeds. There goes another $125 to $150.

So, if you are able to find a good, used walking foot machine locally, if it comes from an upholstery shop, you'll probably be looking for a servo motor really soon. That has been my experience in buying sewing machines locally.

Have you thought about contacting our member-dealers to see what they can offer you that will sew the thickness and thread size you prefer? It might be a better option.

BTW: I have a 15-91 and consider it to be an expensive toy.

[DavidL]

The singer 201 looks like it would work well if you only sew thin garment, upholstery or canvas, same goes with the 15- 91.

Handcranked or treadles will work fine for leather. My grandma has a 1890- early 1900s singer type treadle machine similar to a 15-91 thats still working perfect only for cloth though so they last a long time (one made for leather may take more abuse). However in real life situation I haven't a clue if a singer 45k will last a long time and you may be buying a singer 45k at the middle of its life span or one thats about to quit working. But even if you pick one up at say 100 and get it fixed if necessary its still less than any industrial machine as they start at 1k and up.

Edited August 4, 2014 by DavidL

[Wizcrafts]

There is a certain fascination about buying an old machine and getting it to work like when it was new. But, unless one is almost broke, one is better off buying something either new or rebuilt professionally.

DavidL;

A typical 45k25 that is not all rusted shut, will continue sewing for a long long time. But, parts will wear out and some of them are either hard to find or are expensive. There are new machines that are clones of the 45k21. One is the Cowboy CB2500. It is a modern build of the old design, which sews 7/16 inches of leather, with #346 thread. Needles, bobbins and a roller foot and an edge guide are available. I think it sells for about $1100 or so, depending on options.

[highnoonhunter]

Sorry about that Wiz.......... forgive me, I did think you were downing me.

I'd love to have a nice machine. My reason for looking at the old singers is out of necessity, rather then just wanting to get kicks from restoring an old machine that is junk, and making it work. For the last few years now, my wife has been ill, and her medications prices put our bills more then we make. So I try to use my leather hobby to make up the difference and it's hard for me to save enough money to buy something better.

The Singer 15-88 has helped with a few things at saving me time from hand stitching everything. But if I could run a machine with 138 thread, it and the 15-88 with 69 or 92 thread would cover about 75% of my stitching for me. Maybe some day I could get a machine to run the really large threads and I'd have nearly all the hand stitching covered.

[Wizcrafts]

No problem buddy. I shouldn't have put it the way I did. But, for background, read through the most current topics and you'll see all kinds of people who bought older used machines privately and couldn't get them to sew. Often, parts are missing or worn out. I can't recommend that another member puts themselves through this if there are any options at all.

If you must buy on a budget, search for a true industrial, "compound feed walking foot machine." It is better to look at models that use a larger than standard bobbin. There are two very common oversize bobbins in use today: M style (1.5x) and Juki LU style (2x). I paid for a walking foot machine sewing rifle slings for a friend. Without the larger bobbins, I would have had to stop and swap bobbins after about 8 or 9 slings. With the M bobbins, I was able to sew about 14 slings (with variance in the thickness of the leather and suede and the tightness and density I wound the bobbins to).

All these straps were sewn exclusively with #138 bonded nylon thread and a #23 Schmetz leather point needle. I even posted a video of me sewing them to YouTube. Search for Wiz Feinberg, or Wizcrafts on Y.T. The machine, a National 300N, was a triple (compound) feed, walking foot machine I bought used, but not abused, from a local custom blinds manufacturer that dabbled in some small upholstery jobs.

Machines like mine can sew 3/8 inches with #138 thread, top and bottom, all day long. Occasionally, I would use #207 on top only, for some pancake holsters. But, this was false economy, because the #138 thread on the bottom was the weak link in the construction.

I also have a 1921 Singer straight stitch 31-15 industrial machine. It is lucky if it sews with #92 thread. It performs best with #69 thread only. The machine is basically based on the design of your 15-88 and uses a standard class 15 bobbin. I had to replace the entire shuttle system to keep it sewing at all. It only "likes" certain bobbin cases, popping others out at the worst time, when I am sewing. This is the kind of old junk I was referring to.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[Constabulary]

regarding the vintage Singer 111w series machines - I agree with Wiz in most points but from my point of view it could be worth restoring these old machines. I personally have restored my 111w156 (with reverse) from the late 1950´s and most parts are available at reasonable prices for the 111w series. That is a big advantage. But it is true that most of them may need a lot of TLC but it always depends on what you find.

But I have to admit that I'm a bit "vintage machine crazy" and personally do not like these white painted heartless machines from China but that has nothing to do with their performance or durability. Modern machines have for sure a better performance but when money is an issue a vintage Singer 111w (or other brands) is a good option. Often they are old clunkers - yes - but most still have a lot of life left. Mine runs like a dream, no serious problem since I have restored it. I really love it and I would not trade it for a machine from China. The only nice to have would be a larger bobbin but I can deal with it. But again, that is my personal point of view.

Check out the threads of the last 4 weeks at "Leather Sewing Machines" and you will find some threads of members who have found a nice vintage walking foot machines (not only Singer 111w) for really good prices. You are not the only in this situation.

I´d give a vintage machine a try and in best case you will find one in good working condition which just needs a little TLC.

BTW - the Singer 95 has an odd timing belt which is quite expensive when it is worn or ripped.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Constabulary

[Darren Brosowski]

The 201 series have a horizontal shuttle and when you wear it out with 138 thread (and you will) it cannot be replaced. The 15 class mostly use a central bobbin case that is cheap and easy to replace as is the shuttle. The 15-1 fiddle back bed machines use a long beak shuttle the same as the 17 and 18 class cylinder bed machines which are still available as the Seiko TE and TF respectively.

The singer 201 looks like it would work well if you only sew thin garment, upholstery or canvas, same goes with the 15- 91.

Handcranked or treadles will work fine for leather. My grandma has a 1890- early 1900s singer type treadle machine similar to a 15-91 thats still working perfect only for cloth though so they last a long time (one made for leather may take more abuse). However in real life situation I haven't a clue if a singer 45k will last a long time and you may be buying a singer 45k at the middle of its life span or one thats about to quit working. But even if you pick one up at say 100 and get it fixed if necessary its still less than any industrial machine as they start at 1k and up.

The 95 class uses the 88X1 needle and I have never seen these bigger than 18g.

Hey everyone,

Will a Singer Class 95 handle 138 thread?

There's one here for sale locally and I thought I'd snatch it up if it would.

My old class 15-88 runs 92 thread great, but I need something to use 138 on some items.

[Darren Brosowski]

My personal opinion is that if you are considering sewing as a long term hobby then restoring an old cheap machine is a great way to learn how a machine goes together and works.

If you can restore a 111 or 45k then you will know a lot more about machines than when you started and this knowledge will be a major advantage in keeping your machines running.

[Darren Brosowski]

The 45k has a top speed of 800spm and most would not have ever been run at that speed for any length of time in a leather working shop. As Wiz says they have a very long life but parts are hard to come by.

It is possible that 45k parts are about to hit the market again but at this time I do not want to say too much until I have checked the quality.

[cdthayer]

Constabulary,

The Singer 95-1 had the timing belt that you’re talking about, but by the time that the model 95-40 came out, the belt had been replaced by gears and shaft. I’m not sure which sub-model they changed with.

CD in Oklahoma

[highnoonhunter]

Thanks everyone. The Singer 95 that's available locally is a 95-80 which has the gear drive instead of belt drive. But still, I don't think it's what I need since it won't sew with 138 thread.

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks everyone. The Singer 95 that's available locally is a 95-80 which has the gear drive instead of belt drive. But still, I don't think it's what I need since it won't sew with 138 thread.

You are going to find this out on almost every straight stitch machine you see. Few were designed with enough clearance to pass #138 thread around the bobbin case and shuttle. Have you looked for any nearby industrial sewing machine dealerships? They often have refurbished machines, and sometimes as-is but working machines for sale, one of which may be just what you want. The dealer could set-up a machine to use #138 exclusively, with the proper tensions, needle, clearances, etc.

Try to confine your search to a triple feed walking foot machine (that is not shot).

[cdthayer]

Since this is a thread about “Singer Class 95 Question”, and the OP appears to have gotten his question answered, I thought I’d ask another question pertaining to a 95.

I have a Singer 95-40 that I’ve been toying with the idea of making into a dedicated denim jeans hemming machine. At the current time, we’re using our Singer 20U33 with straight stitch needle plate, feed dog, and presser foot for the task, and it seems to me that we’re wasting the use of the zigzag capabilities on it. If the old iron will do the job as well, I can turn the 20U33 back into a zigzag machine.

The jeans topstitch thread that we use is Tex80, and should work alright in the 95. I have needles coming to try it out for sure. I plan on putting the 95 in an old chopping block type H-leg stand that has the correct cutout, but I’ll have to come up with a motor.

I have an old Atlas Clutch that I got along with a basket-case Singer 31-15 that I put into a newer power stand and then sold to a local wallet-maker. Before that, I had bought and resold another 31-15 that was powered by another Atlas Clutch, although it was in much better shape. That’s the only Atlas Clutch that I’ve ever played with, and I was amazed at the slow control that it provided. Much better than the newer clutch motors that I have on my other machines, and plenty slow enough for a jeans hemming machine.

Before I put much effort (and probably another motor) into this Atlas Clutch, would the folks that have more experience with them tell me if I just got lucky and found one that was better than most, or were all of them pretty good for slow control?

Thanks.

CD in Oklahoma

[SARK9]

Hi CD-

That Singer 251-21 I got for a binding machine had one of those type of clutch motors mounted on it, and I was amazed by the fact I COULD actually control it pretty well. I plan on overhauling the bushings/ sleeves and look into substituting a smaller pulley for the pretty large one that is on it. The mechanics are totally designed for use with a leather belt

The way it mounts is also pretty different....it uses 4 "legs" rather than the more common 3-hole pattern usually seen, and the width of the leg spacing puts the rear pair off the back edge of any of my tables when the pulleys and slots are aligned. I'm studying that as well. It works so well I feel its worth a bit of effort.

-DC