Screen Printing On Leather?

[DavidL]

Im looking for a way to screen print on veg, pre dyed chrome tan leathers and horween leathers.

1. Angelus paints can they be used in screen printing?

First I want to establish if screen printing on veg is possible with leather paint like angelus acrylic? I am sceptical of this as the paint is very thin and may just bleed through the screen unlike the thicker acrylic paints used for screen prints. I have no experience with screen printing and maybe the mesh is fine enough for angelus paints.

2. If angelus paint is too thin are there after market additives to thicken paint without losing its colour?

I assume that angelus paint mixed with something to make it thicker or screen printing paint (wouldn't prefer this. may have to do extra step like flash the paint and then heat it) would work .

3. How would I remove the finish of horween/chrome tan?

Looking to also screen print/ paint with acrylics on horweens and chrome tanned leathers. Would this be possible to remove the finish on the leathers without losing the colour of the leather while screen printing and refinishing to look like the leather was straight from the factory w/ it printed on? Requesting the horween leather or chrome tan without the finish added is one thing, but the chrome, oils, and dyes how do they effect acrylic paints?

On an unrelated note, fiebings dyed veg tan, buffed between coats thoroughly with atom wax rubbed in as the finisher would a heat gun lock the dye in permanently and prevent rub off ( sometimes its hit or miss whether the dye rubs off, usually only after touching water)?

[TomG]

I do screen printing on tee shirts and stuff, but have never tried leather.

Since I have never tried to use any acrylic paints through the screens, I'll give you a brief (sort of) tutorial and maybe it will help you decide.

Couple of issues....

1) Screens come in a wide range of sizes. The higher the number, the tighter the mesh. So, the thinner the ink/paint, the tighter the mesh wil need to be. BUT, the tighter the mesh, the less ink you can force through it.

2) There are several types of printing ink and they all require different drying techniques. Standard plastisol that we use for garments has to be heated up to 320 degrees for at least 1 minute and cured throughout. Not sure what that will do to the leather, coatings or finishes.

Water-based ink and solvent-based ink need high temps as well, Plus, they need forced air to dry properly.

Some of the other inks require UV light, but those are pretty specialized.

I have never researched it, but they make lots of specialty inks for a variety of fabrics and substrates, so there may be one for leather. Maybe one of the nylon or solvent inks.

Personally, I would think if you used a mid-range screen with the Acrylic paints, they would air dry, just as if you used a brush to apply them

I wished you lived closer.. I'd give you a few screens to play with.

Check with one of your local screen printers and see if they have some older wooden framed screens you can have or buy cheap (like $2-$3).

BTW, screens MUST be tight if you are going do multiple passes or multi-color jobs,. We're talking "bounce a quarter 2 feet or higher" tight.... Snare Drum tight.....etc. You can use a loose screen for a single pass print if you're careful though.

You're going to also need a screen printing squeegee.

Good luck and feel free to ask if you need help

[DavidL]

thanks for the knowledge and help.

I know that 120 mesh screens are the ones used in youtube videos most often. Are there any more that are even finer? I am willing to make one with finer mesh.

Would angelus paint - I think its not as thick as the garment paints. can you flood the screen with angelus paint like you can with garment inks without the paint falling through the screen. The screen doesnt allow the paint to just fall through unless its like water consistency? Would such a thin paint be a issue?

On a printing machine for t shirts the board where you lay the shirts can they be replaced and swapped out. I am looking to place wooden guidelines on the board for wallets or tags and a flat replacement if I choose to do t shirts instead. It could be a standard on all machines or special model?

Does primer need to be added to things like shirts or leather?

and finally for the complete set of forced air, emulsion light, and small portable 4 colour printing press how much should I be looking at in price?

[TomG]

I haven't seen youtube vids on printing on leather, except one. It looks like she's using one of those Yudu screens that you can get at craft stores.

I did some more checking and called a couple of my suppliers. They recommended using certain ink additives.

Bill Hood, who is a major screen printing consultant said that he has printed 10's of thousands of leather items and recommends NazDar's lacquer inks. He recommended a 230 mesh tightened to 25 Newtons, 70 Durometer squeegee, and listed specific emulsions and techniques.

As for costs, that's like "how much does it cost to start in leathercrafting". You can buy a used 4 color, single station press on the used market for a few hundred dollars. Screens, squeegees, emulsion, press wash, reclaimer, tape, platen adhesive, will be another few hundred. A forced air dryer used can be had for under $1K if you look around. You can burn screens using a Halogen light, but it's a painful process and not so good for precision screens.

Plus the ink...

Check Craigslist and eBay, plus local ads.

With a low-end setup, you are going to be pretty much limited to 4 color spot printing, No 4-color process (photo), no Sim process, etc.

And yes, the platens that you put the item to be printed on can reused. We normally use adhesive to hold shirts and flat goods down. Not sure how you'll hold down the leather without affecting the flesh side somewhat.

As for the Angelus paints, I would think the major issue would be the same as water-based printing inks. You have to constantly fight the ink drying in the screens. Only it would dry faster, I suspect.

Your best bet is to find a local, friendly screen printer that can maybe give you some screens and stuff to play with.

[DavidL]

Couldn't ask for better advice thanks Tom.

[DavidL]

I haven't seen youtube vids on printing on leather, except one. It looks like she's using one of those Yudu screens that you can get at craft stores.

I did some more checking and called a couple of my suppliers. They recommended using certain ink additives.

Bill Hood, who is a major screen printing consultant said that he has printed 10's of thousands of leather items and recommends NazDar's lacquer inks. He recommended a 230 mesh tightened to 25 Newtons, 70 Durometer squeegee, and listed specific emulsions and techniques.

As for costs, that's like "how much does it cost to start in leathercrafting". You can buy a used 4 color, single station press on the used market for a few hundred dollars. Screens, squeegees, emulsion, press wash, reclaimer, tape, platen adhesive, will be another few hundred. A forced air dryer used can be had for under $1K if you look around. You can burn screens using a Halogen light, but it's a painful process and not so good for precision screens.

Plus the ink...

Check Craigslist and eBay, plus local ads.

With a low-end setup, you are going to be pretty much limited to 4 color spot printing, No 4-color process (photo), no Sim process, etc.

And yes, the platens that you put the item to be printed on can reused. We normally use adhesive to hold shirts and flat goods down. Not sure how you'll hold down the leather without affecting the flesh side somewhat.

As for the Angelus paints, I would think the major issue would be the same as water-based printing inks. You have to constantly fight the ink drying in the screens. Only it would dry faster, I suspect.

Your best bet is to find a local, friendly screen printer that can maybe give you some screens and stuff to play with.

Would you think it would be possible to put a clamp or just hold down down the frame and airbrush with angelus paint. I don't see why it wouldn't work since the screen is more stable than a stencil and prevent overspray. Id like to try to avoid forced air and any other stuff afterwards.

What would be the correct way to do precision screens ? should I just take it to a screen printer?

Edited August 27, 2014 by DavidL

[TomG]

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not an airbrush person , although I've used one a time or 2. All the airbrush work I've seen are done freehand or spraying in or around a hard stencil. The mesh will probably have a pretty strong effect on the paint. Screen printing is a rolling, shearing process. The screen does not touch the garment except at the point that the edge of the squeegee pushes it down. You are essentially forcing a very thin layer of ink down through the screen mesh and out of the openings in the emulsion that are your design.

Odd shaped items are printed most often with some sort of pad printer. In fact, that may be a better alternative for you... the drawback is that unless you invest in a very expensive model, 1 or 2 colors are your limit.

Your other alternatives are DTG (farm it out at first), possibly heat transfer (320 degrees for 20 seconds and medium pressure), the Billy 2-Shews method, MAYBE dye sub, but doubtful.

I'm surprised more folks have not chimed in here about the air brush idea.

Do you have a photo of the type of design you are wanting to put on?

[DavidL]

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not an airbrush person , although I've used one a time or 2. All the airbrush work I've seen are done freehand or spraying in or around a hard stencil. The mesh will probably have a pretty strong effect on the paint. Screen printing is a rolling, shearing process. The screen does not touch the garment except at the point that the edge of the squeegee pushes it down. You are essentially forcing a very thin layer of ink down through the screen mesh and out of the openings in the emulsion that are your design.

Odd shaped items are printed most often with some sort of pad printer. In fact, that may be a better alternative for you... the drawback is that unless you invest in a very expensive model, 1 or 2 colors are your limit.

Your other alternatives are DTG (farm it out at first), possibly heat transfer (320 degrees for 20 seconds and medium pressure), the Billy 2-Shews method, MAYBE dye sub, but doubtful.

I'm surprised more folks have not chimed in here about the air brush idea.

Do you have a photo of the type of design you are wanting to put on?

I'm looking to get a starter kit press thats one screen and one wood base, the different colours will be all on one screen(1 screen per design w/ different layers), being that the wallets are so small. Could I set the screen to sit flush onto the leather? I think the air brush overspray would cover up where the fine mesh is or I could cut that bit off carefully with a knife? Maybe at this point a laser cut stencil might as well be used and tightened to the press somehow or just two large laser cut stencils and one blank piece and a hinge ( stencil on top, leather alignment piece in the middle and a solid base on the bottom, spray and unhinge then repeat. I don't know how well these stencils will prevent bleeding past the stencil though. I seen videos of people using hard stencils on skin (similar to leather) and there wasn't any overspray, any one with experience with airbrushing speak up if you had experience with this.

Designs wouldn't be complex 3 colours max. Something like camoflauge, native american type designs, and solid patterns.

My idea is to get the reverse of the pattern made with holes for screws and for magnets. Magnets will be placed around the screen to pull the screen downwards onto the leather.

can you explain what farm it out means? I have a decent office printer can that be used to print black ink on transparent film? or does the process to make the screen use special inks? Is a pad printer used to print direct on the leather or used to print the transparent film?

Edited August 27, 2014 by DavidL

[DavidL]

So really I have 4 options: Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

1. Screen print with the inks and use the other machinery to cure it. It could be cured without the forced air or the extra heating, but I'm unfamiliar with the different inks and procedures.

2. Screen print w/ angelus paint in an airbrush and do multiple layers preferably has the smaller number mesh 120 or lower if the wires are the small and the emulsion can stick.

3. Hard stencil made of CNC cut acrylic and assembled like a custom "airbrush screen printing station" May need some foam padding to push the leather flush onto the stencil. Don't know how well stencils work on leather to prevent bleed.

4. Get some one w/ proper machinery and get charged per item.

Wish I had the money to test all these out but don't have such a large budget to be testing something that may not work and be left with machinery and an expensive airbrush and compressor.

Edited August 27, 2014 by DavidL

[TomG]

1) A 1 screen press will only do 1 color reliably unless the other colors do not touch each other.. It's a registration issue.

2) 1 screen for multiple colors has the same registration issues. Plus you may bot have enough adjustment range to line up the different designs.

3) Unless you pad print, you will want to print the leather as flat stock before assembly

4) you do not want the screen to sit on top of the item you are printing. You want the squeegee to push the screen down onto the leather.

5) Not sure about the laser cut stencils and airbrush. But unhinging and rehinging created alignment errors as well.

6) "Farm out" means to give someone with the right equipment the material and let them print it.

7) Pad Printers print directly on unevenly shaped objects directly.

8) If you want a good education on screen printing, go to Youtube and search for Ryonet and Catspitproductions and watch those videos. They are the most educational and consistent.

[DavidL]

thanks for your help.

Il check out Ryonet on youtube for a better idea.

The way I want to create the acrylic template is now - get the laser cut stencil cut out the outline of the design, create a screen printed designed on a screen, cut and align it to the acrylic outline.

The hinge you are saying would create alignment issues, can you explain how it would create alignment issue if it is made like a screen printing press machine. I may create a 3 side raised border on the alignment piece to drop the acrylic template/screen print onto the pieces to align.

[DavidL]

nvm..

I found a product that is made specifically to turn acrylics into screen printing ink.

[TomG]

I really can't picture what you are trying to do. We've discussed so many different things, I've lost track <g>

What's the product?

[DavidL]

I go through a lot of ideas at once until I whittle it down to something that could work. Im getting a headache just thinking about it now.

Its a wallet but I'm only printing on the grain side. Not to confuse things but I also want to print a solid colour on the flesh side and have the fibers perfectly smooth like the pic below, but it may be a complete stretch.

1. screen printing with angelus paint and screen printing medium 50/50 (no machine cut acrylic other than the guides). On a regular screen printing press. I don't see why it wouldn't work like it would on a cotton tee the same way as veg tan, but idk.

2. sublimination - is an option but I know little about it, I already have a pretty decent printer. Don't really know what type of printer will make a good print and what the clear plastic is.

Im leaning towards 1. because it has less steps just screen print and air dry?

[jjodrey]

Hi DavidL,

I've read this thread with great interest! Lots of good information. :-) I'm currently using my own rubber stamps on leather, and am pleased with the results. Looking to the future however, I'm considering trying to screen print on veg tanned leather as well. Have you found an appropriate thickener for the acrylic paints?

Did you ever find out hot to screen print or paint on chrome-tanned leathers? I've Googled and have seen some prints done this way, but it looks like they are just sitting on top and won't last.

 

Thanks, and kind regards,

Jill