Adler167 Vs Durkopp 69, Help Me!

[Dignitas1980]

Hi!

I`m new and know nothing about sewing leather. But my question is: Which is the best between Adler 167-62s and Durkopp Adler 69-373? I want to sew collars, harness and other stuffs with 5-6 mm leather.

For Adler 167-62s: It` a triphase motor clutch, with roller foot. It`s very old, i think its from 1985-1990..

The other one, Durkopp Adler 69-373, its a triple transport with walking foot, triphase motor clutch, made in West Germany, olso old. Both have the same price and i want to know which is the right choice for what i want to do. I know, i`ll need a servo motor, but still... I`m really sorry for "my english", but last time when i was writing english, it was 15 years ago. So, what do you think? About Adler`s, not my english.

Hi!

I`m new and know nothing about sewing leather. But my question is: Which is the best between Adler 167-62s and Durkopp Adler 69-373? I want to sew collars, harness and other stuffs with 5-6 mm leather.

For Adler 167-62s: It` a triphase motor clutch, with roller foot. It`s very old, i think its from 1985-1990..

The other one, Durkopp Adler 69-373, its a triple transport with walking foot, triphase motor clutch, made in West Germany, olso old. Both have the same price and i want to know which is the right choice for what i want to do. I know, i`ll need a servo motor, but still... I`m really sorry for "my english", but last time when i was writing english, it was 15 years ago. So, what do you think? About Adler`s, not my english.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Dignitas1980

[Constabulary]

The 167 has a larger hook + bobbin and since you are planing to sew flat items mainly it´s a good choice. I´m not sure but is it possible that the 167-62s has a roller foot and no triple feed / compound feed? The 69 is a cylinder machine with compound feed and when you make your self a flat bed attachment the 69 is the more versatile machien I´d say. But I´d test sew both machines to see which one works best for you. If I had to choose Id take the 69 but it has the smaller hook + bobbin...

1985 - 1990 is relatively new - I have machine from 1932 in use

[TwinOaks]

Unless it's been modified I think the Adler 69 tops out at 138 thread, which might be a bit small for the harness work.

With either machine, you may want to look into changing out the motor and adding a reducer pulley (see this thread).

For most harness work, the Adler 205 is a better choice - I know, not one of the machines you listed, but it's designed for the heavier threads.

[Dignitas1980]

Thanks, guys! The 69's already have a flat bed attachment, but like the 167, they have that old clutch motor and this motor was converted in a monophase. Yes, that 167's got a roller foot, but this machine cannot be tested. The owner its a...dificult man. The 69's got a small pulley, the owner told me: dude, this thing is crazy, you`ve got to sew only straight line or ...you have to learn how to control it! I will test the 69's, see what its capable of. Thanks again, friends!

Edited January 18, 2015 by Dignitas1980

[Dignitas1980]

Maybe you can tell me another types/models of Pfaff, Durkopp Adler, Necchi or other for want i want to sew... I`ve got some offers here, in my country and i want to know which will suit me. Thanks in advance!

[Constabulary]

The clutch motor seems to be very fast. It probably runs at 2800 rpm and that is difficult to slow down. You probably have to swallow a bitter pill and replace the clutch motor with a new servo motor.

So when the guy with the 167 is a difficult man I´d leave him alone with his machine! But I would still test sew the 69 when possible to check if it meets your requirements. Twinoaks is right, the 69 is not a heavy duty machine and has its limits. You probably have to look for a heavier machine when you want to sew with thicker thread.

[Dignitas1980]

The clutch motor seems to be very fast. It probably runs at 2800 rpm and that is difficult to slow down. You probably have to swallow a bitter pill and replace the clutch motor with a new servo motor.

So when the guy with the 167 is a difficult man I´d leave him alone with his machine! But I would still test sew the 69 when possible to check if it meets your requirements. Twinoaks is right, the 69 is not a heavy duty machine and has its limits. You probably have to look for a heavier machine when you want to sew with thicker thread.

Yes, that motor is very fast for what i want to sew, very important: if the machine is not equiped with a servo motor, i`m a dead man, because i have never put my hand to sew something..

I have an offer for 2 Pfaff, 1 and 2 needle, both are post bed, i think they are triple transport, triphase, but the owner doesn`t know what type are these.. And again, both machines got the same old motor, but they are very cheap!

One is Pfaff 192 58B, two needle, and the second one, its looks exactly like first.... Damn, its so difficult when you know nothing about these things!

Edited January 19, 2015 by Dignitas1980

[Constabulary]

These machines are pretty much the same class as the 2 above they just have post beds instead of flat bed or a cylinder arm.

Take the thread you want to use and the material you want to use and try out the machines. Maybe you´ll find out that non of them is working for you - just try them. Thats the best way to find out if they are good or not. Sewing speed is one thing more important is if the machine can handle the thread and material you want to use. You can easily replace the clutch motor with a servo motor.

I can recommend the Jack servos from College Sewing:

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/catalog/search.aspx?keywords=servo

[Dignitas1980]

Pfaff 145 1c LM?

[Anvas]

Hi,

For 5-6 mm leather just forget Adler 69... very reliable and solid machine, but not enough for leather that thick.

Go for Adler 167 eyes closed, as long as it's in good condition without slack at the hook which costs about $400, or at the shaft...

If you could find an Adler 169 which is the cylinder version of the flatbed 167 it would be a great choice.

Don't be afraid of the high speed of the clutch motor. Soon you will learn to control it. Besides, for harness making a clutch motor running at 1200 rpm is ideal. It can run all day long. Just put some time practicing.

[Dignitas1980]

Hi,

For 5-6 mm leather just forget Adler 69... very reliable and solid machine, but not enough for leather that thick.

Go for Adler 167 eyes closed, as long as it's in good condition without slack at the hook which costs about $400, or at the shaft...

If you could find an Adler 169 which is the cylinder version of the flatbed 167 it would be a great choice.

Don't be afraid of the high speed of the clutch motor. Soon you will learn to control it. Besides, for harness making a clutch motor running at 1200 rpm is ideal. It can run all day long. Just put some time practicing.

Thank you for your replay! The problem is like this: that 167 was sold, but i have another one 167, the owner doesn`t know what subklass is, but tomorrow will send me some pictures. So, if the hook is broken or not workin, i`m screw, right? I`ve already bought one Pfaff 192 and another Pfaff 193 and i have to test them. Its hard to believe that these two german tanks can`t sew what i need: 5-6 mm dog collars. I can`t find manuals for them, maybe you can help me. Anyway, i`ve just talk with a jk servo motor dealer from my town, and he ask me 140 euro for Jk 560 750w. Now...i have to ask: why the type with needle positioner is so wanted? What`s the big difference? From what i know, the motor with needle positioner leaves the needle up, right? So..what`s the problem if the needle remain in material?

[Dignitas1980]

It`s okay to convert Adler 167-203S)2 needle) in a single needle sewing machine? What`s the worst case scenario?

[Constabulary]

A hook does not cost $400. You can get quality generic hooks for about $150 or less.

You can either use the left or right needle both have a permanently spinning hook (of course) but you are limited with the accessory feet. The single needle feet do not fit for a double needle setup. You can remove one of the hook saddles and have a spare hook.

But I don´t think this is the best idea - I would look for a single needle machine!

[Dignitas1980]

A hook does not cost $400. You can get quality generic hooks for about $150 or less.

You can either use the left or right needle both have a permanently spinning hook (of course) but you are limited with the accessory feet. The single needle feet do not fit for a double needle setup. You can remove one of the hook saddles and have a spare hook.

But I don´t think this is the best idea - I would look for a single needle machine!

I really apreciate your pacient.. I was annoing, i bet i was! Even now, i must ask: if i convert a double in a single needle, it will be a very big problem? By the way, today i was buying the Jk 650! :D

[Constabulary]

I don´t recall how the Adlers look from the underside but usually the hook saddle is attached with 2 (very tight) screws. I need a picture to tell.

You can also leave the hook installed, remove one of the needle and bobbin case so the hook is spinning but it is empty. Or pull the entire hook with hook shaft and gear. I cannot give you further instructions atm.

But I would only do that in case you are desperate and don´t find a single needle machine elsewhere. Better look for a single needle machine!!!!

[Dignitas1980]

I don´t recall how the Adlers look from the underside but usually the hook saddle is attached with 2 (very tight) screws. I need a picture to tell.

You can also leave the hook installed, remove one of the needle and bobbin case so the hook is spinning but it is empty. Or pull the entire hook with hook shaft and gear. I cannot give you further instructions atm.

But I would only do that in case you are desperate and don´t find a single needle machine elsewhere. Better look for a single needle machine!!!!

I have that Pfaff 193, but i want to buy a Adler 167-203S, and this is with two needles, this is the reason why i was asking about the "conversion".. I do have a single needle machine and that Jk-servomotor will do the work just fine. I think..

So,about this Adler167-203S and Singer 196K5, they can sew thick? Wich will do a good job?

[Anvas]

Look, it depends on what you want to do with each machine. Sometimes I go the other way around... I get inspired of what every object is capable of doing and I go accordingly. For example I would never use a flatbed machine. But I just restored an Adler 104-102. . It's a flatbed 2 needle version of the 105 series which is commonly duplicated by junk Chinese clones. As previously mentioned by our friend Constabulary, the 2 needle machines do have limitations in accessory feet. But you can always modify some things if you have a technical idea and you find a blacksmith. Most important these 104 & 105 series can adjust the stitching length on the fly ! Meaning, that when you are stitching in tight curves you just lower the pitch and your result is an excellent evenly same stitching length look! Plus, you can use same big heavy duty thread sizes both sides, that even a leather worker can hardly tell which is a hand stitch or a machine stitch! I have a sample of a leather piece sewn both by hand and machine side by side as a test and I can upload it for fun :-)

In your case I have an Adler 169 (the cylinder arm version of the 167) and I sew almost everything up to 10mm thick with great ease! I even sewn 6mm fiberglass composites + 2mm polyethylene + 3mm leather all together! 11 mm total !!!

And because I am a big Adler fan, these old German machines can last almost for ever. In general, the older the machine, the better the build and the metal quality. In our times we lack the raw material quality and processing..

So, I would buy the Adler. Even if it needs a costly repair, it will last another lifetime of hard use.

Find a specialized technician to help you with the machines you are interested in and God Speed !

[Dignitas1980]

I do understand, but the problem is that i`ve already buyed this Pfaff 193-4. It`s not the same thing like Adler 69? I will not sew same thickness? This Adler 69 its still for sale, but i don`t want to spend more money.. I have an offer for the Pfaff, so what do you recomend? Sell the Pfaff and buy the Adler? From what i`ve already understand, the difference between Adler 69 and 169, is the bobin, who in the case of 169 is a large bobin, right? God, is really hard with these things!