Hightex 205-370, With Pneumatics. Video

[Ken B]

I'm looking to get a "441 clone", hopefully this week. I'm familiar with Cowboy, Cobra, Techsew, and Artisan. I really like the large hand wheel on these machines, and I like the EPS on the 25" Cobra, but I do not like that they aren't exact replicas of the Adler 205, should I need parts 10 years from now and, god forbid, one of these companies go out of business. I also need the machine to accept genuine 205 accessories, like the Adler table top attachment, which is much nicer on the Adler. Here's a picture of the Adler tabletop attachment. It does not have a slot along the cylinder arm, it is larger, and it looks like it does a really nice job of replicating a flatbed machine.





I came across this video of a Hightex 205-370, and it seems like it may be what I'm looking for. But, perhaps it's not, and someone more knowledgeable than myself can chime in if they feel like it.

I really like the pneumatic lift, the pneumatic guide, and the way the machine flips into reverse from the foot control. Is anyone familiar with a setup like this? Does it come with the machine, or is it something that one would have to order and install separately?

Has anyone on leatherworker purchased a non-cowboy, Hightex machine? Is there a distributor for Hightex in the US? I haven't been able to find one. I really can't figure out how to purchase a Hightex branded machine over a CowBoy.

Thanks for any input!

[Wizcrafts]

Shhhhh! They are now the same company, covering different World markets. Shhhhh!

As for the machine you liked, it is available in the USA, as the Cowboy CB205, 205L and 205LR. I saw them up close and they are clones of the Adler 205 series. The machines most of us have are clones of a very different machine altogether: the Juki TSC-441.

I was at Weavers a week and a half ago and they have Adler 205s and their own version of the 441; the Master Lockstitch. It looks much like my CB4500. The table attachments are very well built and even have a removable piece to access the bobbin without removing the table. I sewed on both machines and both sewed equally well. If I had the money, I would buy a real Adler. Unfortunately, they cost over $6,000. The new machine they are testing from Adler will have to sell for way over $10k.

[Ken B]

Wow, I've been looking into this for weeks, and I never once googled an image of the Juki 441. =/ And I thought I was good at "researching" information on the internet. I wrongfully assumed it was the same as the Adler 205! Embarrassing.

Thanks for tactfully cluing me in Wiz!

Now that I'm more in the know, is the CB4500 able to accept parts from Juki, should the need arise?

Do you have any information or input on the pneumatic setup, and if it's possible to get the same setup on a CB5500, or Cobra class 4-25?

Why does the same company (Hightex) make both a 441 clone, and a 205 clone? What is the difference between these two machines that would make one company choose a 205 over a 441? If one machine is more capable at sewing thinner materials, I would choose that machine over the one aimed primarily at sewing 3/4" material.

[Wizcrafts]

Contact our member-dealers, whose ads appear on the top of every page, about pneumatics. I can't answer that question.

As for comparisons, I couldn't tell from the brief time I spent testing them at Weaver. The Adler is much heavier and has better metal than the Chinese built clones. As for a Chinese 205 clone vs a 441 clone, Bob Kovar told me the 205 type runs smoother. It also costs about $1000 more than a 441 clone.

As for thin sewing, you are looking at the wrong machines. Everything about the moving parts, feed dog, cutout for the feeder, springs and take-up system is way stronger than needed for thin work with light thread. Put a 227 type machine next to a 205 or 441 and the differences are more than obvious.

While I am able to dumb down my CB4500 to sew light stuff, with at least #92 thread, so many changes are necessary it isn't worth the time. I use separate machines for thin or light thread jobs.

[Ken B]

Hey thanks Wiz! That's very helpful info on the 205 running smoother than the 441 clone.

When I say thinner, I mean like in the youtube video I posted. Something that runs smooth stitching couch pieces together, but can also sew through plywood or 1/2" of webbing when needed (which is more than 1/2 of the time). If I can get the 205 clone running #138 thread on denim and thin leather that would be great.

I have a Juki LU563 right now, and it's just not working out for me in so many ways. I really wish I could get the dang thing to run well for me, and I'd keep it for the medium duty work.

I'm also getting a Reliable 20u73 to take care of bar tacks and buttonholes when needed, and I'm hopeful that the 205 or 441 can cover everything from where the 20u73 leaves off. If I have to, I will pickup an additional Seiko STH-8BLD for $1300 new, but hopefully it won't come to that.

If I'm crazy, feel free to tell me, I won't be offended, I appreciate the input

[Wizcrafts]

You're not crazy. Always buy more machine than you think you need. Considering you are looking at a machine selling for close to $4,000 shipped, weighing in at over 200 pounds assembled, think about picking it up in person. The dealer will show you haw to readjust the springs and tensioners for lighter thread and softer material. I actually have two pressure springs for my Cowboy. One is shorter and has slightly thinner coils. The other is full length and heavier duty.

One thing many first time buyers of Adler and 441 machines don't know is that leather point needles under #23 (160) are as scarce as hen's teeth. That means you'll have to use system 7x3 standard round point needles for thin thread.

There is a thread/needle chart on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines website.

[Ken B]

Bob Kovar told me the 205 type runs smoother. It also costs about $1000 more than a 441 clone

I'm trying to find information on the CB205, and it seems there's none available online, which, in 2015, is actually quite confusing me to me.

I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind defining "smoother"? Does that mean it would more easily swap from #138 to #415 with less adjustments? Or does the machine itself just run smoother, like a Japanese sport bike vs a Harley Davidson?

One last question: Are the Cobra and the CowBoy/Hightex machines manufactured in the same facility, and just branded differently, or are they completely separate? I've been able to find a few threads that broach the topic, but I've not yet found the answer.

Thanks again for all your input.

[Wizcrafts]

When Cowboy Bob told me that the 205 clones run smoother I took that to mean less vibration. You'll have to call Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, at 866-362-7397 and ask him yourself.

Your previous question about pneumatics would be custom fabrications done by the factory for particular large industrial customers, or the dealers who set up the machines. The new Adler 969 comes with pneumatic foot lift. Contact Weaver Leather, at 800-weaver1 for more details. You must have a business license and tax number to order from Weaver.

[geiercustomleather]

On 1/21/2015 at 12:38 AM, Wizcrafts said:

Contact our member-dealers, whose ads appear on the top of every page, about pneumatics. I can't answer that question.

As for comparisons, I couldn't tell from the brief time I spent testing them at Weaver. The Adler is much heavier and has better metal than the Chinese built clones. As for a Chinese 205 clone vs a 441 clone, Bob Kovar told me the 205 type runs smoother. It also costs about $1000 more than a 441 clone.

As for thin sewing, you are looking at the wrong machines. Everything about the moving parts, feed dog, cutout for the feeder, springs and take-up system is way stronger than needed for thin work with light thread. Put a 227 type machine next to a 205 or 441 and the differences are more than obvious.

While I am able to dumb down my CB4500 to sew light stuff, with at least #92 thread, so many changes are necessary it isn't worth the time. I use separate machines for thin or light thread jobs.

Hi Wiz,

What are you calling thin/light stuff using #92 thread in leather weight? Are you meaning less than 6 oz or you meaning 6 to 8 oz?

Thanks

Billy

Flying Bear Leather Works

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, geiercustomleather said:

Hi Wiz,

What are you calling thin/light stuff using #92 thread in leather weight? Are you meaning less than 6 oz or you meaning 6 to 8 oz?

Thanks

Billy

Flying Bear Leather Works

My interiors tend to be made of very thin, 1 - 2 ounce haircell pigskin, or some other thin leather. The thickest interior parts would be around 2 - 3 ounces per piece. These need to be sewn with no more than #69 bonded thread. By the time I add a back and liner, the thickness to be sewn can be between 6 and 8 ounces. I normally use #92 thread to attach the back to the interior.

I sew patches onto leather vests on my long body walking foot machine that is always threaded with #92 thread.

Technically speaking, if your assembled wallets are really 1/8 inch thick, you can use up to #138 thread. You'll have to run some test stitches to balance the knots in the center. I've sewn hundreds of suede lined rifle slings and guitar straps using nothing but Weaver's #138 lubricated thread, top and bottom. Most were about 7 to 8 ounces total thickness along the perimeter.