Ken B Report post Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) I'm trying to determine the differences between the DA machines, and I really cannot understand some of their specs. Could anyone help me out with the following thread sizes please? What is Nm 5/3, Nm 8/3, Nm 10/3, and Nm 15/3 thread sizes? Thank you for your help. Edited March 31, 2015 by Ken B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trox Report post Posted March 31, 2015 I'm trying to determine the differences between the DA machines, and I really cannot understand some of their specs. Could anyone help me out with the following thread sizes please? What is Nm 5/3, Nm 8/3, Nm 10/3, and Nm 15/3 thread sizes? Thank you for your help. Nm stands for metric count; number of hanks on 1000 meters/kg. They use the ticket numbering system of a specific thread merely as an thread manufacturers reference guide. Its mostly used on synthetic and core spun thread. In example 5/3= "5" is the ticket number/ and "3" stands for three strands. It is a fixed weight system meaning; the lower a ticket number the thicker the thread is (higher number for thinner thread). TEX system is the other way around. Nm 5/3 is a very thick thread, is approximately TEX 600. Durkopp Adler normally describe the type of thread before or after the Nm ticket number, and its normally polyester and braided polyester. The thread measurement systems is a jungle and every part of the world has their own. Therefor, its often very difficult to convert between different systems and manufacturers. I am only familiar with the European synthetic Nm numbering that I am using myself. I mostly use Amman serafil polyester and Coats Gral lubricated polyester. They have the same Nm ticket numbering as the ones DA uses in their technical documents. (if not exactly the same threads) What DA machine takes the threads size Nm 5/3, the new 969 H series? This is a very difficult system and perhaps the reason that artisans do not change thread manufacturer to often. Tor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken B Report post Posted March 31, 2015 Hey Trox, thanks for the explanation. The Operating Instructions for the H867-190362 state that it can run Nm 5/3, but I suspect that's a mistype. The DA website, and the Service Manual say it can run up to Nm 8/3. So I'm not sure what that is, but I believe Nm10/3 is approx #277, so I suspect Nm 8/3 is #346.The H867 is advertised as a "reinforced version" of the 867.It also has 25mm/1in foot lift, 12mm stitch length, 9mm foot stroke, 3XL bobbin size, electropneumatic lift standard, and 1800 stitches/min. Pretty impressive specs. I wonder how much they're charging for such a versatile, beast of a medium duty machine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trox Report post Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Hi Ken, Yes Nm 10/3 is about TEX 270, then you have 9 that is TEX 350 and 8 who is TEX 400. To make things clear about the DA machines. The M type 867 machine will take up to Nm 10/3 (from 80/3 to 10/3 max). When it comes to the H type, the numbers are H 967 flat bed ( 968 post and 969 cylinder bed). This is the new monster machine with barrels shuttle,it is twice the size of an regular 205-370 machine. This will take up to Nm 5/3 who is TEX 600. Seems like you mixed up the two classes here, on a picture they look very similar. In reality they are very different machines. I hope that helped you Tor Edited March 31, 2015 by Trox Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregg From Keystone Sewing Report post Posted March 31, 2015 The Nm thread system used by Juki, Adler for example in thier brochures is a mystery to me, still. I cannot find any cross reference charts, just bits and pieces. For example, the specs on the Juki LU-1508NS have the threads #30~#5, B46~B138, Nm-60/3 ~20/3. So, from that, at least I know a B46 is same as a 60/3, and 20/3 is same as B138, from this spec sheet. They also have #20~#1, B69~B207, Nm=40/3~8/3. So, again, I can see 40/3 is a B69 and B207 is an 8/3. This is as far as I can get with this really. Anyone with more information, I'm intrested myself on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trox Report post Posted March 31, 2015 Hi Gregg, I do not know the "Juki system". On some of the thread manufacturer web sites they explain every system used. There are two main systems; one is the fixed weight system and the other are the fixed length systems. (example in metric= How many meters thread on a Kg, how much weight on 1000 meter of thread) Far East has their own, Uk,Europe and USA likewise. Since Nylon, polyester and corespun polyester do have the same weight, they have different ticket or tex numbering. I recognize the comparison Nm and tkt 40 is Tex 69, Nm and tkt 8/3 strands is then Tex 400. Since Nm is a fixed weight system the ticket numbers will variate from thread to thread,; some thread are heavier than others. To convert any Tex Number to a Ticket Number value: divide 1,000 by the Tex number and multiply by 3. Any machine data sheet should therefor specify the type of thread used in their spec`s. Unfortunately, this is not very common, many use only synthetic. I guess most synthetic thread with the same numbers of strands weighs similar. I do not know what "B" stand for, perhaps braided? Tor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregg From Keystone Sewing Report post Posted March 31, 2015 Trox, B could be for bound, or usually there is a V in front? As for thread mfg. providing info, for example Coates and A & E have charts, for example, but they are not using the Nm system such as the 8/3 or the like. Gov., Tex, Ticket, and all kinds of other stuff. They have Nm, but not this system. Like you said, it can vary, for example cotton thread is going to use an entirely different system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken B Report post Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Trox, the H867 is a new machine recently posted on the DA webpage. It is listed as an M class machine, that is "reinforced". The specifications are what I listed above, and they're quite impressive. Here is a link to the machine.If Nm8/3 is Tex 400, then it seems the M-Type H867 can run Tex400 top and bottom. Edited March 31, 2015 by Ken B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregg From Keystone Sewing Report post Posted March 31, 2015 This would indicate that the Juki cross references for thread in their brochure for the LU-1500 series I attached on this thread here is incorrect. I'm not so sure 8/3 is equal to a Tex 400 in a Polyester, I think it's a 207? If you look at various other charts, like the one attached to this post, it's confusing, but maybe no so confusing? They have metric sizes, but stated differently? I'm not sure at all here on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trox Report post Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Hi,I did not see the new long reinforced version of the 867. That will for sure take 8/3 polyester. To be exact ticket number of text 400 would be 7.5. Then tex 350 would be 8 (or tex 346). Coats gives us this formula to find the ticket number from tex on a thread. But also writes that finding the tex number from ticket; contact your thread manufacturer. It's not just the oposite calculation,it's more complicated than that. If that's even possible? Anyway, I am using Amman Serafile polyester and Coats Gral lubricated polyester size 8/3 every day on my 441 clone. And the correct needle size for it are Nm 230/26. It's the heaviest size available for both threads. The tex numbering for both these threads are 400. http://www.coatsindustrial.com/en/products-applications/industrial-threads/gral About the B letter, I have no idea, it might be bonded. Cotton thread are an all other ball game. That's not much used anymore and I suspect they still use the antique numbering. This is a very time consuming problem. If there where any major sewing industry left in the EU, I'm sure they would have come up with some kind of standardization Inside the Union. Perhaps that would only be a new non comparable system to add confusion At least one system for sewing machine rating/ one thread type for each machine type would not be to much to ask for. And do not forget to send a letter pigeon to the Chinese about it.I am afraid the will be the Chinese who send us the next standard; a Mandarin numbering system for synthetic, translated with Google Edited April 1, 2015 by Trox Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Brosowski Report post Posted April 1, 2015 According to your chart the 8/3 is #345 but that does not sound right to me as I would have said 415 The /3 tells us that it is a three strand thread. Because of differences in density there are differences between thread types that hurt the brain This would indicate that the Juki cross references for thread in their brochure for the LU-1500 series I attached on this thread here is incorrect. I'm not so sure 8/3 is equal to a Tex 400 in a Polyester, I think it's a 207? If you look at various other charts, like the one attached to this post, it's confusing, but maybe no so confusing? They have metric sizes, but stated differently? I'm not sure at all here on this. BTW 5/3 is rope - not thread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
