Dixons unbranded army surplus tools...

[Martyn]

Guys, something I've discovered - opr at least I think I've discovered, is that there is a whole bunch of army surplus tools out there, either in storage or being sold off cheap, which are actually unbranded vintage Dixons. It's worth keeping an eye out for them and knowing what to look for. They are unbranded, so obviously they cant be sold as Dixons, but that is reflected in the price.

 

I've just bought and unbranded #39 1" vintage crew punch. It was sold as being army surplus, issued but unused condition. It came with a hint of rust and a fairly heavy coat of brown waxy grease all over it. It's simply marked 'SFT /|\1945'. The crows foot or broad arrow symbol /|\ denotes British army issue and all hardware in the British army, from canons to screwdrivers were stamped with it at one time. It turns out Dixons had a contract with the British MOD to supply them with tools for their cavalry saddlers. As is often the case, many of these tools have sat in storage and are unused, some are heavily used and everything in between. But also, used or not, they have a 'life' and once they exceed their lifespan, the Ministry of Defence gets rid of them. Obviously this is unbranded, so I cant be absolutely certain it's a Dixons, but I'm as sure as it's possible to be.

Aside from the grease and obvious signs of age, I cant see any sign of use or damage on the tool. I would have to agree that the claim that it is issued but unused condition, is on point.

After a clean up with scourer and a rub with micromesh...

Looks like a brand new tool. The edge needs a proper polish, but it's all there.

I paid £35 for this, BIN on ebay.

The reason it pinged on my radar, was that I have a plough gague that is also unbranded but marked 'SFT /|\' which members on here identified as a vintage Dixons.

 

This I got as part of a box of about 20 vintage leatherworking tools for £50.

The point I'm making here, is if you see British Army surplus leatherworking tools, unbranded and marked with 'SFT /|\', a date and maybe a string of other numbers, take a VERY close look at it. It may very well be a Dixons tool hiding in olive drab and going for a song.

 

[sheathmaker]

Very interesting, Martyn.  Would you happen to have an eBay link, or vendor eBay name?

 

Thanks in advance.

Paul.

[Martyn]

Hi Paul, yeah here...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Unused-Number-39-EnglIsh-Crew-Punch-Saddlery-Leatherworker-1-X-1-4-/121941821849?hash=item1c644c8999:g:iFMAAOxyGwNTCP8T

The guy seems to have a few of the crew punches. Obviously I cant prove they are Dixons, but if you google 'vintage #39 Dixons crew punch' and compare, the pictures say it all really. The big bargain - the plough gauge - I bought a few years ago though and was part of an estate sale. I didn't even know what it was for when I bought it and didn't know it was a Dixons until a couple of weeks ago.

The main point is the the British Army still have their own saddlers and make their own tack, Sam Brownes etc and you can still train as a saddler in the army. They appear to have had a contract with Dixons, which makes sense and the tools appear to be unbranded, which was also common. I have a few ex-army vintage paraffin lantern's which are well known to be  unbranded Vapalux, they are the same. Just an arrow mark and a number.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Martyn

[simontuntelder]

Hi Martyn, I'm sorry, but I think those are incorrect assumptions.

I have quite a lot of the tools that carry the MOD stamp (broad arrow) and they aren't all made by Dixon. Some are made by Dixon, others Brindley, Wynn Timmins, Priory and I might also have one from George Barnsley. Often they would simply add the broad arrow stamp after the having purchased them from the manufacturer.

you have to imagine that they're from a time when there were plenty of tool manufacturers in the UK that catered to all sorts of trades including leather related trades. So Dixon wasn't the only manufacturer.

That being said your crew punch is very good and it'll serve you well for years.

[Martyn]

I'm not sure I follow you. You dont think the crew punch is a Dixon's?

The only manufacturer that I could find that made crew punches that look anything like mine, is Dixons. They are quite distinctive, look here..

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/saddlery-leatherworking-tool-dixon-475564412

http://www.oldtools.co.uk/leatherworking/155--5-crew-punches.html

Can I ask, with your non-Dixons tools that are marked with a broad arrow, are they also marked with the letters SFT?

Edited April 8, 2016 by Martyn

[simontuntelder]

3 hours ago, Martyn said:

I'm not sure I follow you. You dont think the crew punch is a Dixon's?

The only manufacturer that I could find that made crew punches that look anything like mine, is Dixons. They are quite distinctive, look here..

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/saddlery-leatherworking-tool-dixon-475564412

http://www.oldtools.co.uk/leatherworking/155--5-crew-punches.html

Can I ask, with your non-Dixons tools that are marked with a broad arrow, are they also marked with the letters SFT?

I'm saying, that your crew punch might be Dixon and it might as well be from some other company. Just like your plough might as well be from Brindley or Barnsley.

And if I'm looking at my own Dixon crew punches they look nothing like that crew punch. They're much more curved, refined, and rounded off, but they could be of an older date than said crew punch.

I'll have to check if they have the SFT markings. I don't think so.

[Martyn]

" I'm saying, that your crew punch might be Dixon and it might as well be from some other company. Just like your plough might as well be from Brindley or Barnsley. "

I totally agree. I think they are Dixon's though, dont you?

" And if I'm looking at my own Dixon crew punches they look nothing like that crew punch. They're much more curved, refined, and rounded off, but they could be of an older date than said crew punch. "

I know they did change the style and the more modern ones are different. It might be that older ones are different too. But the only crew punches I could find like mine - with the groove at the throat and bevelled corners on the handle - are Dixons. There are quite a few examples of crew punches (like the ones I posted) which are branded Dixons and look exactly like mine. If you can find a vintage forged English crew punch that looks like mine that is not made by Dixon, I'd love to see it?

At the end of the day, who made it isn't really important other than an indicator of quality. But I am pretty certain they are Dixon. Aside from the obvious - that they are unbranded - I'm not really sure what point you are making?

Edited April 8, 2016 by Martyn

[simontuntelder]

My point is merely that people shouldn't assume that they're buying Dixon if they're buying that punch, but they're rather buying a quality tool. And to clear up any misconception that Dixon was the only one making tools for the British military.

And no I actually don't think that the punch is made by Dixon. But again it's guesswork. I would think it's made by a smaller tool manufacturer. I would guess that it's made by Moreton & Foster, but again it's only speculation - there was a British guy here who made military replicas - he might be more knowledgable on British tool manufacturers.

[Martyn]

" My point is merely that people shouldn't assume that they're buying Dixon if they're buying that punch."

Oh I completely agree with that. If brand names are important to you, then dont buy an unbranded tool. But it is a forged steel tool, it is in excellent condition and the only branded tool I can find which looks like it - and it does look exactly like it - is a Dixons. I'm not sure why you dont think it's a Dixons when it looks exactly like the Dixons branded tools I've linked to? But it is all speculative at the end of the day. people should do their own research and satisfy themselves.

Do you also think my plough gauge is not a Dixons?

[simontuntelder]

I checked your link. And now I also just checked my 15 Dixon (size 34 to 41) crew punches and also that same 39 punch (that I also purchased from the seller along with a size 37) and they just feel completely different. Same quality now doubt, but that 39 punch seems more rugged and less refined. My Dixon punches are all bought second hand from various sellers, so they might have been modified by previous owners. I have a broad arrow stamped punch from Moreton & Foster and that has a similar feel to the crew punch. But again it's only speculation - there might have been 20-50 (or more or less) different companies around Britain that could have made punches like that.

And I'm uncertain about the plough. It might as well be George Barnsley or H Brindley. Or again some other company that had the tool making capabilities. Either way you have a beautiful plough with a great provenance.

[Martyn]

Do you have some pictures of your crew punchers? I'd like to compare.

"And I'm uncertain about the plough. It might as well be George Barnsley or H Brindley. Or again some other company that had the tool making capabilities."

I think certainty is impossible with an unbranded tool, just balance of probabilities. If it's one of thiose others, they would have to be making 'exact' replicas of the Dixon tool. Did they do that? Wouldn't they make to their own patterns rather than make 'fake' Dixons?

Here's another view of the plough for you to compare - it's a 5" BTW.

 

 

This is from the Dixons catalogue...

 

If my plough isn't a Dixons, it's a perfectly exact replica isn't it?

Edited April 8, 2016 by Martyn

[cjmt]

Have to say they look exactly like Dixons to me. The modern crew punches they made had a simplified version of this design, but the old ones look precisely like this. 

[William Bloke]

I'm sure the plough gauge is Dixon's. I have an absolutely identical one of a similar vintage marked Dixon. No idea on the punch though.

Edited April 8, 2016 by William Bloke

[brmax]

Them are some nice tools, and a great find.

Floyd