Viking Turnshoes

[MikeW]

Hi all,

Fairly new to the board. Lots of reading and no posting.

I'm working on a pair of turnshoes based on the ones in "Viking Clothing" by Thor Ewing (plate 11 after p 65). Got most of it figured out, but am unsure of the fastening. I'm attaching a scanned detail of the fastening.

To me, it looks like the toggles are attached to a (about) 1/4" wide strip that has been split at the top and passed through a single hole in the toggle and then passed through the slit, and pulled tight. The other end is then sewn into the (more or less) tongue straps. Is this the right way to attach a toggle?

The other part looks like a rectangle - 2/3 of it is protruding from a slit with 2 button holes just slit in it. The other third is the confusing part. Is it binding-stitched to the inside of the quarter, like this?

When I'm all done, I'll post pics and if anyone wants - plans.

Thanks for any help,

Mike

[SorchaMac]

I have a pattern picture that might help you out.

Sandy

[MikeW]

Yes, that does help quite a bit on the buttonhole tab. Still kinda unsure about the toggle though. Is the wood just slipped through the slit, or is something more going on? Just slipping it through doesn't seem very secure.

[tashabear]

I don't think that's wood; I think that's a rolled leather button. Check out page 59, second paragraph: "...at York these were generally fastened with a rolled leather toggle." Somewhere I have instructions on how to make them. I'll try to remember where I saw it.

I have these boots: http://www.nmia.com/~bohemond/Bootshop/shoe-page/jorvic.htm -- the toggles hold very well. I imagine that the originals held well, too, or they wouldn't have used them.

EDIT: Found it: http://home.clara.net/arianrhod/Aldebaran/...self/Pouch.html Scroll about halfway down. You might have to play with it a bit.

Edited December 29, 2008 by tashabear

[MikeW]

Thanks Tasha. UKRay just sent me that one as well. Funny how "A" and "B" are reversed in the instructions or diagram. One is backwards. Some bone toggles would really give it the prehistoric look, but I think you all are right that the leather toggles are more authentic.

[tashabear]

Thanks Tasha. UKRay just sent me that one as well. Funny how "A" and "B" are reversed in the instructions or diagram. One is backwards. Some bone toggles would really give it the prehistoric look, but I think you all are right that the leather toggles are more authentic.

Have you seen Marc Carlson's Footwear of the Middle Ages site yet? He makes reference to "coffee bean toggles", which were also leather. Don't the ones in that picture look like coffee beans? Isn't that awesome? (I love having my reference library handy.)

[celticleather]

Just to add to the earlier posts . . . the toggles are definitely leather and not wood.

Here's a couple of ways that I make leather toggles. They may need a bit of practice, but I find both methods work well.

Method 1 - Start with a piece of leather roughly the shape as in Pic 1. Note the parallel slit, which is cut just beyond the point where the leather starts to swell back to full width. Roll the leather very tightly, grain side out, until it reaches the slit. Stuff the rolled toggle half-way through the slit (Pic 2) - it has to be a very tight fit!

Method 2 - Start with a piece of leather roughly the shape as in Pic 3. Roll the leather very tightly, grain side out, until it reaches the point where the leather reduces in width. Cut a slit right through the rolled-up toggle (Pic 4). Thread the narrow end of the leather through the slit and pull tight (Pic 5).

[MikeW]

Awesome, a toggle tutorial. Thanks to all of you! I now have homework.

[MikeW]

Ok - for anyone who wants to know. Lots of experimenting and more reading last night (Marc Carlson's sites mostly). The "Coffeebean toggle" is exactly like "method 2" above, except you go straight through the center of the roll coming out in the middle of the "V" area (rather than just the outside layer). Something I wasn't doing - use calf leather around 3 oz. Now I've got shoes to finish.

[UKRay]

Just to add to the earlier posts . . . the toggles are definitely leather and not wood.

Superb tutorial - I wonder if we can convince Johanna to pin this tutorial to the top of the re-enactment section as it would be very useful - Johanna?

[TomSwede]

Hi and welcome to the board + viking hails from Sweden;-)

I think you hvae just experienced how helpful and friendly this place is so no need for me to go through that but I can add that the coffee is good but do not eat the donuts if anyone offers you, they're just no good anymore;-)

Tom

[MikeW]

Thanks, Tom, for the warm welcome. I wish you'd warned me sooner about the donuts. I've eaten softer rocks.

As to pinning the toggle tutorial. I think it'd be tough to find in here and this isn't a tutorial on Viking Shoes. Tho, I hope someday to make one if another pair comes out better. Maybe copy the post to a "toggle" topic?

Here's some pics of the finished shoes. Thanks everyone for the help!

[tashabear]

Thanks, Tom, for the warm welcome. I wish you'd warned me sooner about the donuts. I've eaten softer rocks.

As to pinning the toggle tutorial. I think it'd be tough to find in here and this isn't a tutorial on Viking Shoes. Tho, I hope someday to make one if another pair comes out better. Maybe copy the post to a "toggle" topic?

Here's some pics of the finished shoes. Thanks everyone for the help!

Those are so CUTE! Nicely done!

[TomSwede]

Very good looking pair of shoes! Alltough a big viking interest and leatherworker I have for some reason managed to never get into the design of the shoes so no pointers from me about construction.

The just look soo nice and comfortable. Some sheepskin lining and wow..they'd be so nice to wear a cold winters day, sinking down on the couch with a brew and a whisky;-)

Tom

[tashabear]

The just look soo nice and comfortable. Some sheepskin lining and wow..they'd be so nice to wear a cold winters day, sinking down on the couch with a brew and a whisky;-)

Tom

I have wool felt insoles in mine, and they are AMAZINGLY comfy to wear, even in the summer.

[Seamus]

The more I look at threads like this and shoes like those, the more I want to try my hand at a pair (or two or three). Of course, I do the Ren Faire thing, so historical accuracy, though somewhat important, can allow for modern bennies. (Read: I would make mine with a vibram sole. *grin*)

Definately some fine looking shoes. Excellant handiwork.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Seamus

[Jordan]

A silly question..... Should the button closures be on the outside of the foot to reduce the chance of undoing them while engaging in motor skills?

[tashabear]

A silly question..... Should the button closures be on the outside of the foot to reduce the chance of undoing them while engaging in motor skills?

I'm not MikeW, but...

I asked that question of someone wearing similar shoes at a reenactment, and she said that she had no problems, and that having the closures on the inside made them easier to fasten, since she could put her foot up on the opposite knee.

Think about it, though... how many times do your feet actually brush against each other while you walk?

[MikeW]

Yeah, up until the mid 15th century or so, closures were on the inside of shoes. It really does make them easier to fasten. Outside closures means kneeling down and working on the shoe, switching knees to fix the other.

[Jordan]

I was thinking of crossing/uncrossing my legs whilst settin in my favorite recliner. LOL, I don't get up too often once settled in but thought it would be a suprise if my shoes came undone when I had to move quick at dinner time! LOL Quite right though it would be a funny way to walk.

[tashabear]

I was thinking of crossing/uncrossing my legs whilst settin in my favorite recliner. LOL, I don't get up too often once settled in but thought it would be a suprise if my shoes came undone when I had to move quick at dinner time! LOL Quite right though it would be a funny way to walk.

Sadly, there don't seem to be any surviving recliners found in graves from Birka or Visby. I've looked. :-( ;-)