handheld belt sander or planer for reducing 10 oz veg tanned to 6 oz

[esantoro]

Happened to find myself in Sears today and came upon handheld belt sanders and planers that you move along the surface of your object.

How well might either of these work for reducing 10 oz vegetable tanned leather to 6 oz? Which would work better, the sander or the planer. For $100 this just might be the ticket.

Thanks,

Ed

[RandyScott]

Ed,

My experience with a hand held belt sander is that it is heavy, awkward and fast with lots of torque which makes it hard to get 'fine' control of it.

As to the planer, I assume you are refering to a powered planer used to thin lumber. It uses some sort of traction mechanism to grab and pull the lumber through the planer. So that action alone would leave traction marks on the leather. I have a neighbor that is a finish trim carpenter and when he turns his planer on, it wails like a banshee. I think the planer blades are spinning so fast it would burn the leather if it did not just eat it all. Hmmmm, I just re-read your post... are you referring to a 'hand held planer'? I don't have any experience with one but I think it would be even harder to control. I know a hand held belt sander will eat a 1/4" gouge in oak lumber in the blink of an eye.

Here is a link to an article "How to modify a spokeshare for paring leather", http://www.hewit.com/sd16-ss.htm, that I discovered some time ago. I just checked it and the link is still good. I found this on a leather bookbinding site, so it may have an application in your case.

I hope this helps.. good luck!

Randy

[esantoro]

Ed,

My experience with a hand held belt sander is that it is heavy, awkward and fast with lots of torque which makes it hard to get 'fine' control of it.

As to the planer, I assume you are refering to a powered planer used to thin lumber. It uses some sort of traction mechanism to grab and pull the lumber through the planer. So that action alone would leave traction marks on the leather. I have a neighbor that is a finish trim carpenter and when he turns his planer on, it wails like a banshee. I think the planer blades are spinning so fast it would burn the leather if it did not just eat it all. Hmmmm, I just re-read your post... are you referring to a 'hand held planer'? I don't have any experience with one but I think it would be even harder to control. I know a hand held belt sander will eat a 1/4" gouge in oak lumber in the blink of an eye.

Here is a link to an article "How to modify a spokeshare for paring leather", http://www.hewit.com/sd16-ss.htm, that I discovered some time ago. I just checked it and the link is still good. I found this on a leather bookbinding site, so it may have an application in your case.

I hope this helps.. good luck!

Randy

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the heads-up on the belt sander. What do you think about a circular sander or a gyrating sander?. I've noticed that sanding by hand can take down a 2" square section from 4 mm to about 3.8mm in 30 seconds or so. Since an hour of manual sanding can get rather tiring, I was thinking a circular or gyrating sander might be plan B.

I think at either Lowes or Home Depot I can try out these tools and return them if they don't work as needed.

Ed

[RandyScott]

Ed,

I don't have any experience with a hand held 'circular' sander. The 'gyrating', I think it is also known as an orbital sander, may be a better solution.

Just so we are on the same page: an orbital sander moves the face or platen rapidly back and forth in a short horizontal arc pivoting from the center of the platen. Some orbitals move the platen forward and back, some side to side, others in the arc motion described above.

It is easier to control, the weight is less, therefore less risk of gouging or sanding a divot in the leather.

There may be another type of obital sander that employes an off center mount yet spin or rotate the platen (hmmm.. circular?) to achieve a flat but somewhat random sanding pattern.

It this is the type you refer to, my concern again would be torque. The faster it spins, the more torque and with more torque controlling the sander becomes an issue.

Just a curiosity question or two Ed, what size workpiece are you trying to thin? How are you holding it flat?

Randy

[esantoro]

Randy,

I was thinking that there were two types of electric sanders, a circular one which spins around and an orbital one which gyrates.

For one project, I would be thinning three 17" x 12" pieces of 10 oz veg tan, one 17" x 26" piece, and two 5" x 42" pieces, with odds and ends.

I'll pick up the highest powered variable speed orbital sander I can get and give it a try. With the right grit and pressure everything should be controllable.

I'll post pictures.

Thanks,

Ed

Ed,

I don't have any experience with a hand held 'circular' sander. The 'gyrating', I think it is also known as an orbital sander, may be a better solution.

Just so we are on the same page: an orbital sander moves the face or platen rapidly back and forth in a short horizontal arc pivoting from the center of the platen. Some orbitals move the platen forward and back, some side to side, others in the arc motion described above.

It is easier to control, the weight is less, therefore less risk of gouging or sanding a divot in the leather.

There may be another type of obital sander that employes an off center mount yet spin or rotate the platen (hmmm.. circular?) to achieve a flat but somewhat random sanding pattern.

It this is the type you refer to, my concern again would be torque. The faster it spins, the more torque and with more torque controlling the sander becomes an issue.

Just a curiosity question or two Ed, what size workpiece are you trying to thin? How are you holding it flat?

Randy

[Ian]

Not to metion, of course, that a belt sander will shoot your piece of leather across the room as soon as you turn it on.

[esantoro]

Not to metion, of course, that a belt sander will shoot your piece of leather across the room as soon as you turn it on.

Would a handheld planer also shoot the leather across the room? My understanding is that I can set the planer to 1/64" depth and there would be less risk of the blade digging too far into the leather, as the flat base of the planer would serve as a level.

Ed

[tonyc1]

Ed, if you are really going to try any of these ideas I think you must be a masochist! Let us know how any of them work if you retain your sanity!

Tony.

[esantoro]

Ed, if you are really going to try any of these ideas I think you must be a masochist! Let us know how any of them work if you retain your sanity!

Tony.

Sanity left me a long, long, time ago.

Belt sander idea...gone.

Orbital sander... still a possibility and the safest bet. Will have to get one with a dust bag.

Handheld electric planer... seems a rather dangerous option, but the theoretical possibility is very tempting. And I'm beginning to think that this may be a real winner.

Ed

[tonyc1]

Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

[Windy]

Happened to find myself in Sears today and came upon handheld belt sanders and planers that you move along the surface of your object.

How well might either of these work for reducing 10 oz vegetable tanned leather to 6 oz? Which would work better, the sander or the planer. For $100 this just might be the ticket.

Thanks,

Ed

Ed,

I own both of these and never tried either one. I can tell you my brother

has sanded the back of some leather to get it smooth and it worked for him.

They make small belt sanders nowadays that would be easier to control. You

could try a random orbit sander which would be easier to control. If you try

the hand held planer I would suggest you start in the middle and work towards

the outside. If you try and start on the edge you will more than likely pick up

the edge and suck it in to the planer thus ruining your leather and probably

your pants.The hand held planers are very fast and very aggressive. They work

great on wood. If I had to do what you are planning I would buy a small belt

sander with a fifty grit belt and work to finer grits till you get the leather the

way you want it. Like always this is just my most humble opinion. You have got

my curiosity aroused , if I find time this weekend I might try planning a piece of

leather.

WINDY

[esantoro]

Ed,

I own both of these and never tried either one. I can tell you my brother

has sanded the back of some leather to get it smooth and it worked for him.

They make small belt sanders nowadays that would be easier to control. You

could try a random orbit sander which would be easier to control. If you try

the hand held planer I would suggest you start in the middle and work towards

the outside. If you try and start on the edge you will more than likely pick up

the edge and suck it in to the planer thus ruining your leather and probably

your pants.The hand held planers are very fast and very aggressive. They work

great on wood. If I had to do what you are planning I would buy a small belt

sander with a fifty grit belt and work to finer grits till you get the leather the

way you want it. Like always this is just my most humble opinion. You have got

my curiosity aroused , if I find time this weekend I might try planning a piece of

leather.

WINDY

Windy,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I hope you get to some experimentation yourself this weekend.

I think the orbital sander will be good to have on hand anyway.

Regarding the planer, I hope that a cutting depth of only 1/64" to 1/32" won't pose much of a problem.

Ed

[Bree]

Ed...

For this kind of thing and no splitter, I like the drill press drum sander but you haven't got the drill press so try this.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=97181

You can use the top where it curves round just like a drum sander. Heck it might even work better. For $80 it's a steal. I may go over and get one myself.

[Windy]

Ed,

Being as I had the afternoon off. I took some leather

back in the woodshop to play around with your idea.

Well the planer worked real nice on an old belt. I

worked out from the middle to the belt tip and buckle

end.On the ends when the front shoe of the plane

leaves the leather it cuts a low spot about an inch in

from the end, in woodworking terms this is called snipe.

If you are going to try it, make sure you have about two

inches extra on the edges to allow for the snipe.I ended

up with a finish just a wee bit longer rougher than suede.

With a new planer and nice new sharp blades you may get

a smoother finish.I did not have any wider leather I wanted

to make thinner so I did not get to try it on anything wider

than the old belt. It will probably work on wider leather as

long as you hold the planer firmly against the leather to

keep the leather flat while planning it.I meant to ask my

brother about the belt sander finish when I talked to him

today alas it slipped my mind. I probably should have tried

the belt sander while I was in their messing around ,I just

was not in the mood for anything dusty. Since the batteries

for my Trident air thingy are both rundown.Thanks to the

Christmas present build off.

WINDY

[esantoro]

just got back from The Home Depot. Planer and orbital sander for $150. Ten minutes playing with it all. Not bad....not bad at all. The planer isn't as scary nor as loud as I thought it would be. I'll play more tomorrow and post pictures and results.

ed

[esantoro]

............................................................Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

.......................

The jury is still out.

[tonyc1]

So, should we hold our breath,Ed?

[esantoro]

So, should we hold our breath,Ed?

I think the results will be surprising but not spectacular. I still have to get used to the planer. I'm beginning to see a method taking shape.

1. Plane in two or three passes at the shallowest setting, 1/64".

2. Give it the once over with the random orbital sander with 40 or 50 grain paper.

I can see that results will be better with larger work pieces than with the odd shaped scraps of skirting leather I'm currently using

The dust collectors on both the sander and the planer don't seem to work well with leather or at all.

I'm using a Milwaukee sander, $70, and a Ryobi planer, $70.

Not aware of how these planers actually work, I played with some at The Home Depot that had had their blades removed. I didn't realize at the time that the blades had been removed and wondered how the rotating part could plane anything. I thought that maybe this would mean it might work especially well on leather.

Then I walked over to Lowes and nearly sliced my finger off, not expecting anything sharp underneath. The demos at Lowes had the blades installed.

ed

[tonyc1]

Is this very time consuming?

[esantoro]

Is this very time consuming?

Obsessions are never time consuming. They ARE time itself.

The experimentation is taking a bit of time. If I do get a reliable method down I don't think the actual application will be too time consuming. Finishing off with the orbital sander is rather quick.

ed

Edited January 4, 2009 by esantoro

[JohnBarton]

We use a belt sander with a nice powerful motor. It works but it's loud and very time consuming and the results ae uneven.

I would be very happy to hear that the planer solution works.

I have one case model where it is CRITICAL that the leather match the edges of the endcaps perfectly flush. I can't sand the endcaps to match the leather or it damages the edges of the leather as well as makes the endcap edges uneven.

The only solution is to skive or sand or somehow make the last inch of the leather taper to be perfectly flush. But how to do this in a controlled manner is driving me crazy.

[bruce johnson]

{"I have one case model where it is CRITICAL that the leather match the edges of the endcaps perfectly flush. I can't sand the endcaps to match the leather or it damages the edges of the leather as well as makes the endcap edges uneven.

The only solution is to skive or sand or somehow make the last inch of the leather taper to be perfectly flush. But how to do this in a controlled manner is driving me crazy."}

If I am reading what you need to do, sounds like a bell kinfe skiver would get the jod done. A one inch taper is no big deal on those with the right presser foot set up.

[esantoro]

We use a belt sander with a nice powerful motor. It works but it's loud and very time consuming and the results ae uneven.

I would be very happy to hear that the planer solution works.

I have one case model where it is CRITICAL that the leather match the edges of the endcaps perfectly flush. I can't sand the endcaps to match the leather or it damages the edges of the leather as well as makes the endcap edges uneven.

The only solution is to skive or sand or somehow make the last inch of the leather taper to be perfectly flush. But how to do this in a controlled manner is driving me crazy.

Haven't been able to experiment more and have to before deciding if I should return the planer. The sander I'm keeping.

REvised method thus far only in theory:

1.Plane to edges,shouldn't take much time. Start in middle go out to edges and stop about an inch short of edge.

2. Take orbital sander around edges applying some pressure. It is good if 1" margin around edges is thinner than the rest. At least for bags, this helps with the the stitching.

Theoretical time projection (not including setup and cleanup) for 1 pass of the planer and finishing off with orbital sander (17" x 12" piece of leather): 2 minutes. Add a minute for each additional pass of the planer along the entire surface.

I'll try to get back to it this weekend.

Ed

[esantoro]

Playing around just a minute ago with my Osborne U-shaped channel gouger , I got to thinking that someone ought to make something like this that can plane, gouge or scrape a 3"-wide section. Something like a spokeshave but with a basic depth adjustment.

I've never used a spokeshave. Do they have depth adjustments?

Ed

[tonyc1]

Yes, Ed. My old, wooden spokeshaves have adjustable blades. Two wing nuts on the back and you can use the handles as burnishers if you want to, I know I do.

Tony.