NEW LEAD TESTING LAW

[Washroad]

Click here... http://www.arra-access.com/arra/home.html and read how congress is intending to stop the sale of small ATVs because of lead content. So, if this becomes law, we can no longer buy the small ATVs for children, even though the lead level has NEVER been harmful to anyone. Gotta have Big Brother take care of me.....where's my welfare check/ bailout money?

Yes, the media is liberal for the most part. OK, the guy that owns it is rich, so? It's all about money and power. You get the money, now you want the power.

Al "I'm a lying no good fraud" Gore is an example; he's managed to raise close to $500 million in his campaign to stop global warming (even though he doesn't walk the walk, he just shoots his mouth off when he should be shooting something else). He's gotten the ear of obama, most of the liberal members of congress (who know so much better how I should live than I do myself) and now STUPID laws are going in effect and have been because of scum sucking camel lickers like him.

I think the lead laws are ridiculous, stupid.

and I'm truly worried about America.

[Windy]

Click here... http://www.arra-access.com/arra/home.html and read how congress is intending to stop the sale of small ATVs because of lead content. So, if this becomes law, we can no longer buy the small ATVs for children, even though the lead level has NEVER been harmful to anyone. Gotta have Big Brother take care of me.....where's my welfare check/ bailout money?

Yes, the media is liberal for the most part. OK, the guy that owns it is rich, so? It's all about money and power. You get the money, now you want the power.

Al "I'm a lying no good fraud" Gore is an example; he's managed to raise close to $500 million in his campaign to stop global warming (even though he doesn't walk the walk, he just shoots his mouth off when he should be shooting something else). He's gotten the ear of obama, most of the liberal members of congress (who know so much better how I should live than I do myself) and now STUPID laws are going in effect and have been because of scum sucking camel lickers like him.

I think the lead laws are ridiculous, stupid.

and I'm truly worried about America.

Now come out of that shell and tell us what you really think. I was a little confused

about how you feel about Al Gore and the rest of the liberals in the United States.

I guess being the conservative republican I am makes it hard to understand just

how you feel about this subject.Once again could you be more specific about your

feelings towards liberals.

WINDY

[dirtbag77]

"Yes, the media is liberal for the most part. OK, the guy that owns it is rich, so?"

This is the kind of dismissive thing you have to do to live in the black and white world of conserative and liberal. And you're wrong. The owner is everything in business. Bill Gates is Microsoft. Richard Branson is Virgin. Rupert Murdoch is the majority of media at this ponit.

Also, whose been conservative in the last 50 years? Nobody. You don't get a trillion dollars in debt in 8 years being conservative. You don't get the patriot act by being conservative. Now being conservative means a belief in Lazes-faire economics. And that's not exclusive to republicans. Clinton gave us NAFTA. Do you know what other successful and thriving nations in the history of man also practiced unregulated national economics? NONE OF THEM. Do you know how many of the countries that currently milk our country of it's GNP practice lazes-faire economics? NONE OF THEM. So the idea of liberal and conservative that the media has fed to the type of people who say things like "liberal media" and "elitist left" is a cheesy myth. The reason we are losing all of our rights is because it makes good economic sense for the people who are actually making our choices for us, corporations. Not even American ones! The reason that people are bugging us about lead is because there is an actual ecological problem that can't be handled because it isn't economically viable. So we pay the price with this 'chairs off the Titanic' type legislation. A company that dumps more lead into a creek in a week than all of the ATV's and chinese toys in the world could match is never going to do anything. And the bummer is that so many people have been suckered into believing that the reason is because it's the companies freedom to do so. Wrong. Believe it or not, corporations are not actually people! A person can't destroy a whole city or lake or government. So corporations get their own laws and aren't supposed to be free like us. They're just a business. It's just that there's not much of a lobby for small time toy manufacturers and people who make bow quivers and SCA belts. And I'm no tree hugger, but if you actually want to go with the idea that there aren't drastic ecological consequences already being payed and that all of the scientists in the world (who don't work for Exxon) are wrong, then never mind. Forget you because you've been too politicized to even not want to die. Not dying is not a Republican or Democratic or American idea. Eh, I'm sorry. I joined this site for fun and this ain't. I just let politics riun my fun... again. I'm gonna go look at pictures of guitar straps! Later.

[Washroad]

Eh, I'm sorry. I joined this site for fun and this ain't. I just let politics riun my fun... again. I'm gonna go look at pictures of guitar straps! Later.

I joined this site to learn and have a good time also! and I am! I grew up arguing politics with my family and friends. I always respect another's opinion (unless you're a politician). I think everything is political and that doesn't make it bad.

Windy, I know I shouldn't sugar-coat things! But I'm not a Republican. I don't like Republicans anymore than I like Democrats. I'm a Libertarian (should I duck now???).

My opinion (just like George Carlin's); the planet is fine. It's the people that are *************!!

[Windy]

Windy, I know I shouldn't sugar-coat things! But I'm not a Republican. I don't like Republicans anymore than I like Democrats. I'm a Libertarian (should I duck now???).

My opinion (just like George Carlin's); the planet is fine. It's the people that are *************!!

Washroad ,

Why should you duck? I do not base my friendship with others on their politics nor

do I choose with whom I speak based on politics.If all the people around me agreed

with me all I would hear all day would be "yes Windy you are right again". I will tell

you that hearing this half the day is boring enough, hearing it all day would just plain

drive me nuts. So feel free to voice your opinions on every subject here. Just remember without differences we would all have long hair and beards and drive blue

Ford pick ups while wearing Levi's and t-shirts that say Mitchell Brothers Masonry on

them.

WINDY

[TexasJack]

The anti-lead people are going to use it as an excuse to go after more than just paints. Check this out:

The California Fish and Game Commission is considering a statewide ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting. Two years ago, a bill was signed into law that imposed a ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting in areas occupied by the California condor. Through its hunting regulations, the Commission extended the ban to include .22 rimfire ammunition and expanded the boundaries where the ban applies. Given this track record, the Commission is likely to be receptive to expanding the ban to the borders of the state.

From the beginning, proponents of the current ban have wanted to ban lead ammunition statewide. The California condor was simply being used by the anti-hunters and anti-gunners to carry out this agenda. They have already achieved a partial ban. The next step is to take it statewide. If they are successful, they will push to ban the use of lead ammunition for everyone, not just hunters.

There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is the source of lead affecting the health of condors released to the wild. There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is a risk to human health and the environment in California. What is evident is that there is a group of environmental extremists who have friends on the Commission who will not stop until the most affordable, available, and ballistically superior ammunition is banned in your state. They know the damage that such a ban will do to both hunting and shooting participation.

[BillB]

TexasJack,

I guess it all depends on where you live. Here on the east coast, especially in Maryland where duck hunting was big for ages, there was a study done back in the 90's that did find lead in ducks that were being consumed by humans. It was not the lead that killed the ducks, but the lead shot the ducks would eat from the bottom of the ponds and water areas to add to their gullets to help food digestion. Evidently it is hard to teach a duck to determine the difference from spent shot and plain sand or gravel. This then raised the lead level that was in the ducks muscle and thus would get into the humans that ate the ducks. So there was a great debate on banning lead shot.

I live near Washington DC and I am proud to say I am a Government Civil Servant working in DoD. I have always found it interesting how Political Appointees can take something with sound science behind it and twist it to fit their purposes, e.g. banning lead bullets from hunting all sorts of animals where a single shot is envolved by using the data from a study on duck hunting and what happens to the spent buck shot that never hit anything. 8-)

They also tend to Jump to conclusions without fully understanding the Root Cause.

When you have a government that is supposed to be "For the People and By the People" and the People opt out, then it is left to the folks that Opt In. A democracy/republic does not run is the public does not participate. The US Government was structured so that we had "revolutions" every 2 to 4 years, but if we continue to vote in the same people year after year, then there is no "revolution".

I wold like to get back to the original thread and say that the law is getting questioned here in and around DC. We need to have our voices heard and we do that by sending emails and letters to our representatives in congress. The President can only try and set the Theme, it is Congress that writes and sets the law.

BillB

[Go2Tex]

Rupert Murdoch is the majority of media at this ponit.

Oh right. Just like Haliburton was controling Bush's mind. "It was all Chaney's fault!" No, sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. Murdoch is not the media, anymore than Disney is TV. And, a company is not just the owner. And, America is not Obama, although you wouldn't believe it to read the NY Times.

No, it's the guys and gals with their talking heads on TV, the writers of the sit-coms and movies, the reporters and editors in every news room in the Country, even the Weather Channel folks who parrot the "sky is falling" and have jumped on the "green" bandwagon. It's the classroom teachers who preach environmentalism from grade 1, because that is all they have ever heard themselves from grade 1. The entire Country has been indoctrinated, if not brain-washed by what they see, read and hear ever since mass media reared it's ugly head. Murdoch could not have done that alone. The entire World is swinging Left. Murdoch may be rich but he's not God. George Soros is mighty rich too and he's plenty active in the Media and politics and he's about as far Left as a sane man could be. Ok, maybe not sane, but at least lucid. Do you think those two guys are working together? And let's not forget our favorite Murdoch henchmen co-conspirators, Barbara Streisand and Whoopie.

The fact of the matter is, Murdoch doesn't give a rip what effect the "media" has on public opinion as long as the ratings numbers keep selling advertisement. He probably doesn't watch TV. If I had his money, I wouldn't watch it either. And I doubt he's all that truly conservative. That is more likely a huge exaggeration and misinterpretation by some Liberal talking head Clinton toe-sucker that has caught on and has been repeated a thousand times. Think about it. A true conservative would not, could not sit back and continue to rake in the millions knowing full well that "his" media outlets were affecting the outcome of national elections by enfluencing public opinion contrary to his own strongly held political beliefs.

If Murdoch is a conservative, he's a damn lousy example of one...... Kinda like G Dubya turned out to be.

[TexasJack]

... Here on the east coast, especially in Maryland where duck hunting was big for ages, there was a study done back in the 90's that did find lead in ducks that were being consumed by humans. It was not the lead that killed the ducks, but the lead shot the ducks would eat from the bottom of the ponds and water areas to add to their gullets to help food digestion. Evidently it is hard to teach a duck to determine the difference from spent shot and plain sand or gravel. This then raised the lead level that was in the ducks muscle and thus would get into the humans that ate the ducks. So there was a great debate on banning lead shot....

BillB

Those same studies were carried on in Texas and Louisiana. When no evidence of lead poisoning in ducks could be found, the Sierra Club and all the anti-gun folks claimed that the sick ducks were eaten by alligators. That prompted the Louisiana wildlife folks to point out that there were no alligators with lead poisoning from eating those ducks. The anti-hunting and anti-gun folks thought that this ban would kill off shotgun hunting, plain and simple.

The reality is that lead poisoning is not common, either from paint or spent bullets. The only time lead was a problem in the environment was when it was used in gasoline, something that was banned in 1990.

This is a case of pop-science being used to push through part of a political agenda.

[dirtbag77]

It's funny. Bill Clinton's crowning achievement during his term was the passage of NAFTA, by all actual definitions the most conservative agreement in America since, well, ever. He couldn't push through socialized healthcare, he didn't cost us any money in wars, and the dot-com bubble was in full effect, thanks to freemarket speculation. Outside of balancing the budget in part due to a big ole tax on upper incomers, NAFTA was one of the few big policies he pulled off. He was waaaaay more conservative than Bush. Being a republican today is certainly as liberal as being a democrat. Cheney didn't control Bush, they shared the same interests. And both of them, through extremely liberal policies, are guaranteed to be rich beyond our wildest dreams regardless of what the economy does. And those policies do things like put independent leathercraftsman out of business through nickle and dime laws like the one this post is about, in order to protect the interests of people like them. And those people aren't conservatives either. They will cry about the maintenence of a free market in America, though they are hardly american at all, but take subsidies and lobby for a law like this one.

The point is that this thread turned into a bunch of MEDIA influenced rhetoric, when it is about the passage of a law that is meant to hurt everyone on this board with it's passing. I don't like steel shot either. But that isn't the point of this thread. If we lived in a world of whiny DEMOCRATIC liberal policies, as you imply, there would be gays married, socialized healthcare (and not a bunch of 'just wait and see...'), banned smoking, good public schools, no guns, tons of progressive taxes and no cool cars. If it were a totally REPUBLICAN liberal country, we'd have no constitution left except for the protection of arms and a bunch of new ammendments, no abortions, no habeas corpus, a fresh war every month, religious propaganda in every public institution, tons of recessive taxes, and drilling everywhere(protecting a national park isn't liberal. changing laws to sell it is). The one thing both of these parties agree on is protecting the interests of the people who PAID to get them in office. Not the ones who voted. So there will always be laws like this one getting passed (79-13). Calling people names based on a media-induced stereotypes shows somebody has a side as far as republican or democrat, and may get some 'i heard that's, but it doesn't say anything about understanding that this law was a gift to us from our friendly chinese importing companies and liberal lawmakers on both sides. Here's an article fron the PIRG website about the BIPARTISAN bill. Also, notice that Ted Stevens is the liberal republican who threw in the ATV part of the law. Thank goodness we have republican senators to protect us from ourselves too, right?

Here's an excerpt from the release from the bi-partisan lead sponsors, Senators Mark Pryor (D-AR), Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Ted Stevens (R-AK), and Susan Collins (R-ME). Sorry, no link, I can't get on the senate servers: "The CPSC is crippled under budget restraints, mounting imports and thousands of new products entering the marketplace. As a result, we've seen endless recalls and unnecessary deaths and injuries," Pryor said. "My legislation allows parents and the CPSC to fight back against the tide of dangerous toyconference action in order to produce a solid, aggressive bill for President Bush to sign." "I thank Senator Pryor and Senator Stevens for their leadership in negotiating this bipartisan compromise bill. S. 2663 authorizes the appropriate level of resources and provides the new authorities necessary for the agency to do the job it was created to do: protect consumers," Inouye said. "Children are dying and suffering grievous injuries because of unsafe products. This legislation directly addresses the weaknesses of our nation’s product safety system and is a good step forward in our effort to keep harmful products off of store shelves."

"This important legislation will provide the Consumer Product Safety Commission with the tools needed to better protect American consumers," said Stevens. "The measure sends a strong message that when it comes to our children, safety comes first. I am especially pleased that the bill includes my provision to protect users of all-terrain vehicles by requiring both domestic and foreign ATV companies to comply with the same basic safety standards and sales practices."

"Toy safety has made a giant leap forward with the Senate's approval of this bipartisan bill to strengthen the federal Consumer Product Safety Commission. This bill will help the federal government better detect and prevent threats to our children before, not after, toys reach store shelves," said Collins. s and products. It provides new safety safeguards that emphasize resources, accountability, disclosure and testing -- from the factory floor to the store shelves. I appreciate the broad, bipartisan support behind this bill and will work toward swift

[BillB]

Those same studies were carried on in Texas and Louisiana. When no evidence of lead poisoning in ducks could be found, the Sierra Club and all the anti-gun folks claimed that the sick ducks were eaten by alligators. That prompted the Louisiana wildlife folks to point out that there were no alligators with lead poisoning from eating those ducks. The anti-hunting and anti-gun folks thought that this ban would kill off shotgun hunting, plain and simple.

The reality is that lead poisoning is not common, either from paint or spent bullets. The only time lead was a problem in the environment was when it was used in gasoline, something that was banned in 1990.

This is a case of pop-science being used to push through part of a political agenda.

TexasJack,

Let me restate what I wrote in my reply. I did not state that lead poisoning was found in ducks. What was found was an elevated level of lead in the ducks. Since lead is an element that the human body will not remove it builds up over time. Over time, if enough lead builds up in the human body, then the effects will become evident no matter what one calls it. This has been proven by medical science and is not "Popular Science". It has also been proven that high level of lead in the water supply and, oh yes, paint chips consumed by kids can have the same effect, e.g. raising the lead level in the human body until there are adverse affects. We don't see much of the paint chip issue today since all of the paints used in houses today do not contain lead. One would hav to go back to the 70's to really get a feel for what was happening. Here on the East coast where some of the water infrastructure is over 100 years old, this has become a problem.

I do agree with you that the mass hysteria drive politicians to extremes. But then again in a democracy if more than 50% of the people what something done, then that is the way a democracy works and it is also the risk of a democracy. The fact that it would take a person eating a duck with elevated lead levels every day for a number of years before the affects are apparent is lost in todays ZERO tolerance for such things (mass hysteria).

Here in the DC area we call it FEAR MONGERING since it is the fear of the consequences that is being used to get things done. Look at the bailout of the auto industry "If you don't pass this bill this week the whole economy of the US will collapse". Now it is "If we don't bail out the Financial Industry the whole economy will collapse." Fear sells, fear motivates people, fear is what is being used by the politicians and others.

Time to stop rambling 8-) I will be sooooo glad to retire and move away from all the Hype here in the DC area and get back to the Heart Land where real people live and take responsibility for their lives and their decisions.

BillB.

[Troy1]

Back to lead and the cpsc, I come from the bicycle manufacturing industry and I'm well versed on the new cpsc rulings. I had the oh so fine pleasure of being involved in many rounds of banter with them. The good news is that there are but a couple of contention points for leatherworkers. Lead testing is actually the easy regulation to work around. In my industry its pthalides that are the real bear cat. Fortunately we don't work with many plastics and pvc's in this industry so thats not so big of deal. Here's a rundown of keys as it might pertain to you all.

PROBLEM AREA:

BRASS!! Contains high amounts of lead don't use solid brass

PVC - if using any plastics make sure they are not poly vinyl chloride based products

OK COMPONENTS:

Leather - Veg Tan, and I would think chrome tan would pass as well but it would be interesting to test both

Stainless & Nickel plated hardware etc.

Polyeurathane - based plastics PU and TPU ok "most poly, and nylon wovens are ok

Cotton - Canvas etc.

To be safe one should have lead certificates in hand. These tests should be completed by the actual manufacturer making the raw components (the hardware casters, tanneries etc..). Certificates are issued by a certified third party tester (they are all over the world). Testing for lead is actually cheap ranging from $40-100. No you don't test every piece you make, you test by comoponent. So if you were making a kids handbag for instance you should have a test certificate for the leather, and the hardware pieces. Once you have this blanket test you're generally good as long as you buy the same components from the same vendor.

All of this cpsc mess came from the lead-laden kids toys from China that quite a few young kids got sick from.The lead contents were higher than many of the old toys we used to chew on as kids. Originally the cpsc wanted to make this new ruling retroactive meaning that all the product on retailers shelves could potentially have been pulled. Fortunately it was demonstrated to the cpsc that this could and would have bankrupted more than a handful of American businesses so that was overturned.

The nice thing about this cpsc ruling is that it lays down an even playing field. All offshore product have to comply as well as domestic goods. In the past a lot of things of this nature only applied to US manufacturers while folks in China were free to operate however they wanted, thus further creating a tipped playing field. I'm hoping we can rebuild some American manufacturing infrastructure and get people working again. For me more than ever about keeping it local!