building a Western saddle for a female vs. a male

[Blake]

All opinions are welcome and open for discussion:

What are the primary differences that you consider or apply when building a Western saddle for a female vs. a male?

Blake

[bruce johnson]

Blake,

In short, I consider what they do or don't like about what they are riding now.

I have sat in with Pete Gorrell on this topic a couple of times. Pete has the anatomy drawings of the female pelvis and hip structure, as well as the more muscle and leg mass on the inside of the femur (thighbone) vs men. The general recommendation is a narrower seat, scooped out for the thighs, with a higher "ridge" for women.

That said I have had more guys order that type seat, and two woman want a wider lower front. I think a lot of this also depends on the purpose of the saddle though. To stand up and rope, some people prefer a wider seat in the front to "get a squeeze" on, but it is too wide to ride 10 minutes down the road. Personally I like a narrower seat with a slight buildup. When I was cutting, I liked a little more rise to the front than the average "board". Roping, wider to stand up and not have to be knock-kneed to be stable.

I am attaching some pictures of a few variations of seats I do. The dark roughout is a cowboying saddle and moderately narrow through the waist and a little more rise to it. The Weatherly has a longer low spot, is quite narrow throught the waist and has a very narrow moderate to higher rise. This guy cowboys a lot, and that was the complaint with his previous saddles being too wide and/or low in the front. The saddle with the branded fenders could go roping, cutting, or a pretty good dayride. Fairly narrow and moderate rise - my personal favorite. The light roughout is a cutter/colt saddle. Narrow waist and moderate rise, but would be considered too narrow and high by most cutters. All of these saddles are used by men, and they like the seats. The block stamped saddle with the florals has a fairly low seat, not real narrow, and not a lot of"pinch" to the front. Fits my wife just right.

I am already seeing where this thread is going. Dennis Lane's sytem for the top of the saddle too. LOL.

Bruce Johnson

[David Genadek]

Blake,

There are two primary differences between the male and female pelvis.

Firstly, the seats bones on a woman are wider relative to the front on a woman than a man. This means women need a wider seat in the rear. This is why many think the seat is too wide and it is prying them apart. That really means the seat is too narrow and it is getting between their seat bones and it is prying them apart. The other difference is that the leg socket sets further back on a woman and the leg comes out at more of an angle than it does on a man. This means the seat needs to start wider but narrow more quickly than it does for man. Women also need to ride with more bend to their leg than a man does because of these anatomical differences.

Here is a good article on the subject written by Deb Bennett PHD. I brought Deb to a museum and had her go through pelvic structure with me but I think most museums have a paleontologist on staff that could help you.

When I was first trying to figure all this out I got some folks and made molds of their behinds. I made some sheets of fiberglass out of water activated casting material and set it on a piece of foam on the horses back. I had my victim’s strip down and put a garbage bags on then we set them on the horses back. I used the molds when carving my groundwork until I got the shapes locked in my mind. It was kind of fun to watch people walk in the shop looking to see a row of butts.

Another really good resource for understanding seats is Peggy Cummings. When I was looking for someone that was good with rider position everyone pointed me in her direction. Every saddle maker should spend time with Peggy. This woman understands rider position like no one else and she is great teacher.

David Genadek