Finishing over alcohol based dye

[Ard Righ Art]

I have been working on a journal cover. After a small misstep, I decided the nice golden colour that Angelus offers would complement the pattern and colouring done with an acrylic ink. 

My problem is that I have found finishing the dyes with an acrylic, such as Tandy's Professional Finish, seems to lead to cracking when the leather is bent, at least in the handful of bracelets, barrettes, and small journals I have done that way. 

It also occurred to me that the dye had simply dried the leather, and led to the cracking. To try to alleviate this from either cause I have creased and folded prior to dyeing

The dye contains denatured alcohol and glycol ether. I have considered finishing it with clear-lac, but wonder if that is a good fit over the already acrylic-coated tooled area, and have also read that it does not handle well with being frequently bent.

I also would like to keep the resisted part as bright as possible.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

[garypl]

These dyes normally cause the leather to dry out a bit - I apply neatsfoot oil after dyeing, then finish.  Have not had any particular problems with cracking.

Gary

[Clintonville Leather]

I oil before then dye but I usually use the Fiebings oil.  Most stains tend to dry the leather.  The Eco Flo Waterstain dries it a lot if I use that I condition it before finishing with a tallow beeswax mixture. Any conditioner should work. I usually use Tan Kote for a finish and have not used clear lac.  Tan Kote seems to bend just fine.

[VabaX]

as in, the tooled/acrylic painted areas form cracks in the acrylic paint (or in the leather?) when you coat the item with an acrylic top finish? 

Have you tested with an uncoated but painted item to see if it still cracks when put under the same kind of abuse? It may not so much be an issue of the top finish, as it is the acrylic 'dye' (read: paint)

[immiketoo]

Question.  Have you let everything dry thoroughly before applying a finish?  Sometimes, dissimilar products react poorly with each other.  I had completed a pair of barstools and the finish started to crack then flake off.  I hadn't let my dye fully dry and the solvents killed the finish.  

A suggestion if you haven't already tried it is to pre bend the fold a little while the leather is lightly moist, then add your dye.  Stops a lot of spine cracks, but you may end up with wrinkles when its open.

Lastly, try RTC as a finish if all else fails.  Its easily the best finish out there in my experience.

[Ard Righ Art]

On 10/25/2018 at 3:14 PM, garypl said:

These dyes normally cause the leather to dry out a bit - I apply neatsfoot oil after dyeing, then finish.  Have not had any particular problems with cracking.

Gary

Thank you, 

[Ard Righ Art]

On 10/25/2018 at 10:59 PM, VabaX said:

as in, the tooled/acrylic painted areas form cracks in the acrylic paint (or in the leather?) when you coat the item with an acrylic top finish? 

Have you tested with an uncoated but painted item to see if it still cracks when put under the same kind of abuse? It may not so much be an issue of the top finish, as it is the acrylic 'dye' (read: paint)

The cracking occurs on bends or folds with the dye. I have not had issues with acrylics in the past, other than the propensity of cheaper ones to wipe off when finished or antiques and finished. Though I have never painted a full folds, slight bends have been fine with them, and the "professional finish" - also an acrylic based product - has seemed to stand severe folds pretty well.

I cannot recall if I noticed any cracking with just the dye alone prior to finishing it. I will perform that experiment tomorrow. That's a good idea.

Thank you

[Ard Righ Art]

On 10/28/2018 at 10:15 AM, immiketoo said:

Question.  Have you let everything dry thoroughly before applying a finish?  Sometimes, dissimilar products react poorly with each other.  I had completed a pair of barstools and the finish started to crack then flake off.  I hadn't let my dye fully dry and the solvents killed the finish.  

A suggestion if you haven't already tried it is to pre bend the fold a little while the leather is lightly moist, then add your dye.  Stops a lot of spine cracks, but you may end up with wrinkles when its open.

Lastly, try RTC as a finish if all else fails.  Its easily the best finish out there in my experience.

I think I have been letting things dry overnight at least between steps. Most of the time ;). At shows I have been known to fudge that but explain to the customer if I do. It seems to cure out in about a day even if I am too quick on the top coat. But that has always been like on like. Acrylics to acrylics or neat lac to spirit dyes.

I think I will get some RTC, super-shene seems to have gone to skim milk the last several years, and the Eco pro finish isn't always cutting it, especially with mahogany stain.

I did bend before dyeing this project. Yes there was a little wrinkling when flat, but not noticeable when folded. 

I also waited 24 hrs and decided on leather balm with atom wax. Somehow I've had the idea that wasn't a true finish, but my local Tandy guy suggested it. 

Because it was due too soon, and I was unsure how oil would darken the dyed portion, I didn't oil it at any point.  I suppose I got a notion of exactly the look I wanted and only then began to try to hammer out the details.

All in all, I think it turned out ok, no cracks. I may chase the owner down if anyone thinks the leather balm won't cut it.

 

 

[Ard Righ Art]

Thank you to all. I thought I would get email notifications of replies, but apparently need to work on that setting. There was a lot more on here than I expected when I logged in. 

[utah leather]

I just tried tan kote on a sample belt ( I have been using resolene for about 5 years ) and I have a couple questions , what do you use to apply it, what tecnique do you use and do you thin it down wth anything ?. I'm finding it hard to use, it doesn't go very far and after I put it on so I have to keep messin with it rubbing it on ( as it wants to dry while working with it ) and after 4 coats it has faint lines in it from the speachial sponges I use.

                                                                                                     Thanks for any advice

 

 

   

   

[garypl]

I apply Tan Kote with a damp sponge.  It dries quickly so you have to work fast - kind of like brushing lacquer on wood.  If you go over the same spot too many times you get streaks.

Gary