Sewing machine for thinner leather

[Woolies]

Hello everyone, after hours of searching and reading many posts with titles like 'help choosing sewing machine', I have learned a lot but still dont have a firm answer for myself on a machine for thinner leather. So my apologies if this topic has already been covered and I missed it. 

I am looking for advice on purchasing a machine that will sew thinner leather- mostly 1-4 oz, up to 3-4 layers thick. I am currently using a cheap Chinese shoe patcher (hand crank), which is working great but I need a motor and want to use both hands to hold the leather (and I would like cleaner, straighter stitches). I do not plan to sew anything thicker (holsters, belts, saddles, etc..). 

I think I have decided on the following:

Max thread: 207 (138 might be fine too)

Foot lift: 3/8" is likely fine although 1/2" would be nice

Walking foot (but on this I am not sure if a roller foot would be better?) 

Cylinder bed- which I plan to buy or build a flatbed attachment for. 

From what everyone has said, I think these machines would suit my needs: CB 227R, Juki 341, consew 2700, CB341, Cobra 26. Are there any other similar clones I am missing? 

I am hoping to spend up to 2.5k (CDN$)

My first big question is- will the above machines happily sew a couple layers of 1oz leather, and a couple layers of 3 oz leather (as that is what I will primarily be sewing)? Or should I be looking for something even more 'light duty'? Will they also sew canvas, and other non leather materials?

My second question is- might I be happy enough with a Barracuda 200ZW? I know this is not a cylinder machine and I think is a single feed? My one real complaint with the shoe patcher (other than working 1 handed and not being motorized) is that sometimes when going over seams or when sewing 2 layers of more 'slippery' material (sheepskin), the bottom layer can slip off the edge of the bed or a layer bunches (due to the foot slipping on the material and not feeding through). Would I likely have the same problem with a single feed machine? The zigzag option does appeal to me as well. And I'm thinking if I can get by with this machine for a year or so to see how much I use it, it might be a cheaper "test" than the costlier machines. But I dont want to give up in frustration because my machine is pathetic or waste $700 and have to go buy a 2-3k machine in a month. 

This is a hobby, that although I would like to turn into a side business, I likely won't. Therefore, I'm not sure I want to spend 2-3k on something I may not get money back on/ use for a year or two and then only minimally. But I also don't really want to buy something that I can't grow into, where I've reached its max potential on my first project. 

I live in (very) rural Alberta, the Cobra 26 has been quoted to me at $3500 (CDN) from Longview leather, and I would still have to go pick it up. The consew on the website is about $3k with shipping and speed reducer, and I cant seem to find any cowboy dealers. Any Alberta (Canada) people found better options? Ive been looking for used the past 5 months but seems there are more flatbeds and heavier leather options (441s), and not seeing anything for thinner leather. Does anyone know if there is a place that would let me demo a barracuda machine? 

Thanks! I am impressed by all the knowledge here and appreciate this resource very much. 

[Ferg]

Some extra thoughts on your needs.

I noticed you want to use the machine for making shoes. Your best bet for that is a "Post Bed" machine of at least 7" in height.

Same machine is good for making bags among other of similar builds.

The Cowboy post bed:

Post height: 7"

Gear Driven Top Feed Roller Foot

Gear Driven Bottom Feed Roller Feed

Needle Feed

Maximum Roller Foot Lift: 7/16"

Max Sewn Thickness: 5/16"+

At least two machines with different capabilities I think is ideal, the post bed if you wish to do the above, or a cylinder bed with the addition of an accessory flat table. 

I don't like needle feed machines. Cowboy 3200 will not handle thin leather well, it is a walking foot cylinder bed. I have a Consew flatbed, walking foot I wouldn't trade if my life depended on it.

I am not familiar enough with other cylinder beds to give good information.

I imagine my info will either help or confuse the situation for your even more. Lol

Ferg

Edited October 17, 2019 by Ferg

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Woolies said:

From what everyone has said, I think these machines would suit my needs: CB 227R, Juki 341, consew 2700, CB341, Cobra 26.

5 hours ago, Woolies said:

My first big question is- will the above machines happily sew a couple layers of 1oz leather, and a couple layers of 3 oz leather (as that is what I will primarily be sewing)? Or should I be looking for something even more 'light duty'? Will they also sew canvas, and other non leather materials?

These are probably NOT the type of sewing machine you need to sew very thin or soft leather and other fabrics. It really boils down to the firmness of the leather or other materials.

The whole problem is that compound feed walking foot machines have a small inside foot that pushes down hard directly over a large, often oblong hole or slot in the feed dog. That dog moves inside a large rectangular cutout that can be a trap for thin, soft material. You would be better served by either a straight stitch machine or a dual feed, fixed needle machine. The only possible drawback is that dual (top/bottom) feed machines have teeth on the top and bottom. They will mark the leather on both sides.

5 hours ago, Woolies said:

Walking foot (but on this I am not sure if a roller foot would be better?) 

Moving along, straight stitch drop feed machines usually have static position needles with a single fixed position presser foot. The needle goes through a small hole in the throat plate. They are just like domestic sewing machines, but much more robust and mounted on 20 x 48 inch tables with big motors underneath. You can get a roller foot conversion kit for most Singer straight stitch and their clones. I had a 96k40 that had a roller foot conversion and used it to sew leather vests that were too soft for my walking foot machines. I now have a Singer 31-15 that handles flat work. The roller rides on the left edge of the needle giving great visibility. It revolves over leather instead of dragging it.

When you aren't sewing leather, a standard flat foot can be installed. They comes in all kinds of styles, like narrow zipper, piping, edge guides, wide toes, left toe, right toe, dohseedoh.

5 hours ago, Woolies said:

Max thread: 207 (138 might be fine too)

Foot lift: 3/8" is likely fine although 1/2" would be nice

Not gonna happen on a light duty straight stitch machine. Maybe #92, but more likely #69 bonded nylon and 1/4 to 5/16 inch.

Walking foot machines can handle #138 thread. A few can tension #207 if specifically set up for it. Most do sew 3/8 inch, but that is usually the upper limit. Some newer models can sew 7/16" with #207. But, they will be rough on 2 or 3 ounces and probably eat it.

[kgg]

8 hours ago, Woolies said:

Does anyone know if there is a place that would let me demo a barracuda machine? 

You may want to give either Reliable a call (800- 268-1649) for a complete list of resellers in Alberta but I think Mac 1 Sewing Machines in Calgary sell the Reliable line of sewing machines. The Reliable Barracuda is a nice portable machine which can handle V138 but the presser foot can be a bit aggressive which can be easily solved. I have owned and used one with no problems what-so-ever.

However if you want dependability, accessories and good resale value down the road buy a Juki. Buy Once, Cry Once.

For what you are describing for it's use I would probably consider a Juki DU-11811N (approximately $1600 CA) walking foot as it should probably handle the lighter weight stuff better.

I would also suggest you look at a couple of video's done by SewingGold.com for the Juki DU-1181n and the Juki DNU-1541S for their video comparisons of them sewing light, medium, and heavier materials to see which category your stuff best falls into.

kgg

[Woolies]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and time. Looks like I need to do some more research and look into some straight stitch machines as well. Thanks kgg for the info on Reliable and Mac 1- I will contact them and see what I can arrange. 

I'm sure it's wonderful having so many machine options but for a newbie like me it's hard to keep everything straight! 

Thanks again, I'm so grateful. 

[Woolies]

Hi again,

I have found a used Singer 31K15- would this be a good buy for my needs? (if working and in good condition etc...) 

Also if needed could I replace the motor with a servo and speed reducer if needed (not sure how difficult (possible?) It is on this machine..., I'm pretty handy, can change car oil, brakes, etc...)? 

Just want to double check if this machine could probably sew through 3 layers of soft 3-4 oz leather? But I would mostly be doing 2 layers. 

Thanks! 

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Woolies said:

Hi again,

I have found a used Singer 31K15- would this be a good buy for my needs? (if working and in good condition etc...) 

Also if needed could I replace the motor with a servo and speed reducer if needed (not sure how difficult (possible?) It is on this machine..., I'm pretty handy, can change car oil, brakes, etc...)? 

Just want to double check if this machine could probably sew through 3 layers of soft 3-4 oz leather? But I would mostly be doing 2 layers. 

Thanks! 

I have the US version of that machine: the 31-15. Yours is British, made in Scotland. It is essentially the same machine as mine.

The 31(- or k) 15 uses Class 15 bobbins and is a tailoring machine. The foot lifts to about 1/4 to 5/16 inch. But, with higher foot lift there is a risk of activating the tension release pin prematurely. That would cause a total loss of top tension. You are best not sewing more than 1/4 inch on that machine.

The feed is drop feed only, via interchangeable feed dogs. For leather you'll want to purchase an aggressive feed dog and matching throat plate. If the leather drags under the foot you may need either a Teflon or roller foot. With smooth feed it should get 5 stitches per inch. If the standard foot grabs the leather you'll get shorter stitches. The maximum safe thread size is #69 bonded nylon, with a #18 needle. You may possibly be able to get it to sew with #92 bonded thread using a #19 or #20 needle. However, the beehive tension spring on this machine is rather feeble (meant for thin cotton thread) and may need to be replaced with a walking foot tension spring for nylon thread.

Your 8 ounce soft leather seams should be well within its capacity. Three layers would be pushing it, especially since it has bottom feed only. If you try sewing dense leather you'll likely cause the needle bar to move up from the impacts. That will throw out the timing. Despite its appearance, this is a light duty sewing machine.

FWIIW, I only use my 31-15 for cloth garments and jacket linings and sometimes for thin pigskin wallet interiors. I use walking foot machines (and patchers) for everything else.

[Wizcrafts]

I see from your profile that you are into shoe making. A lot of shoe and boot makers use 31-15 machines that are converted into roller foot machines to sew decorative patterns into the uppers.This class of machine can sew very tiny stitches with small thread and needles. You can buy bonded nylon thread as small as #33 and lay down an intricate pattern at 24 to 32 stitches per inch, using a #9 needle. Also available is #46 bonded thread which can be sewn with a #12 or #14 needle. You won't get the same short stitches as with the smaller needle, but it will still sew a nice pattern at about 16 per inch.

[Woolies]

Thanks Wiz! Great feedback! For decorative stitching it is tempting- but I have only space for 1 machine so might pass and keep looking. 

Thanks for all the info again! 

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Woolies said:

Thanks Wiz! Great feedback! For decorative stitching it is tempting- but I have only space for 1 machine so might pass and keep looking. 

Thanks for all the info again! 

I have two machines that drop into the same table. The knee lever works for the walking foot machine but not the 31-15. However, it can be altered to lift the foot in the 31 class machine. Better yet, get a table with a foot lift floor pedal that can pull down on the lift mechanisms with a long chain. Just make sure you buy manual oiled machines that don't need an oil filled pan. Then buy a straight stitch and a walking foot that have 7" x 17" beds. The tilt pin holes can be modified so both machines can tilt back in the table clamps.

[Woolies]

Awesome, thank you- learning so much as I go. It's an expensive hobby to make a mistake in (buying the wrong machine) so I'm hesitant to go for anything. But like I said- I've learned a lot so am closer to a decision than when I started. 

: - )

[9fingers]

Woolies, have you found a machine?  I am retiring (4th try) and have a Mach 1 leather machine (personally have sewn 3 layers of 8/9 oz) and a refurbished table mounted fine tailoring machine that sews like a dream (everything from fine cloth's to canvas and lighter leathers).  Taking offers.

Meant to add, am east of Calgary a tad.