WHICH FACTORY MADE TREE IS BEST?

[cowboygear]

It is apparent that custom hand made saddle trees are to be used by PROFFESIONAL or MASTER saddlemakers. What about a first time maker who has put his time in sweeping saddle shop floors and learned all he could about working with leather and saddle repair from those who knew what they were talking about? I am not talking about someone who has absolutely no clue and needs to get schooling first or the rich guy who buys all the top of the line tools, trees, leather, machinery ect. before even considering building a saddle. I mean the person who is going to turn out a pretty decent and marketable hand made saddle first rattle out of the box but still it is obvious that a first timer or someone just starting out does not need to be using handmade trees unless he is very very talented or he is a second or third generation saddlemaker with someone watching over him as he works. Lets face it handmade trees are extremely difficult for a beginner to get and someone like I described needs to be spending their time actually building saddles and working on getting better at building saddles not sitting at the house waiting for a handmade tree to be delivered so they can mess it up or be too nervous to even use it when it finally does arrive. Therefore my very simple question is WHICH FACTORY MADE TREE IS BEST? By best I mean - QUALITY, FIT, AVAILABILITY & reliability ect. Also keeping in mind that some customers may actually prefer a less expensive saddle and not need or be willing to wait for or pay the extra for a saddle with a handmade tree so what is a maker who needs the business and needs to sell a saddle to do in this case?

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi Cowboygear,

It really doesn't matter if it is your first, second, or hundredth saddle, the fit for the horses comes from the tree alone provided the saddlemaker doesn't do anything to screw it up. If you want to get off on the right foot, wait for a handmade tree; it may cause you to be more careful and make sure of what you are doing while building that first one. It's like practicing anything with leather working, if you practice on a cheap piece of scrap you'll probably not do as good a job as if you were practicing by actually making something. It sounds like you have some skill and knowledge from being around the saddeshop; you should understand the three most important parts of the saddle are the tree, the groundseat, and the rigging. I have seen some pretty crude saddles made by working cowboys, on handmade trees that had all three of these aspects completed in a useful fashion, the saddles are all cowboyed out of on a daily basis and work as well as anything else out there.

As far as a customer paying the extra bucks? It might serve you well to do what most saddlemakers have done in the past, work a little harder for a little less money... after you've made a few saddles and they start looking a little more refined, people will see you have a quality attitude from the tree on up and you'll start to build a customer base of people who are not financially strapped and looking for "cheap and nasty".

All this said, if you are going to go ahead and get a factory tree, Bowden makes some of the better ones that I've seen.

Darc

[cowboygear]

Thanks for the advice. I understand that the handmade trees are well worth the difference in price. but what about the availability factor? Where can I get one two or three trees ,what is the cost, and how long will it take from order to delivery? It has been several years since I have been around saddle shops or makers and back then handmade trees were virtually impossible to get if you were not a full time maker with an order backlog.

[Alan Bell]

While agreeing with Darcy I might add that I am basically a beginner saddle maker. I have been braiding for a few years now but as far as saddle making I'm still trying to get through my fifth! I started out making my first one for myself and by myself (and it shows!). Still have it. It is on a Bowden tree. I used Tandy leather. It alone convinced me to wait for a hand made tree! and to use high quality leather. I learned a lot on my first saddle and have continued learning on each saddle since. I still have a "day job" driving over the road so it may be a while before I reach saddle number 20, 30, etc. BUT I do not want a bunch of 'so-so' saddles out there with my name on them as I build my rep. At the very least I can say that all the saddles out there with my name are made out of the finest materials I could find! They ain't the best put together pieces of gear and they SURE ain't the prettiest but they are made of quality materials and more or less at MY expense even though I sold them. (because of the time it takes me to get them out the door since I still drive). Quality vs quantity? I chose quality! Also, using a better tree and better leather does make you a bit more careful. If you are still going to cut corners because of finances use less expensive leather. You can still build a useable rig out of lighter weight quality leather and save money that way or by mid grade leather. My handful of customers all know that, though, they could pay someone else for a better saddle, I am conscientious about the craft and would rather cut up and throw away and sart over that to send out something sub standard! So they wait for me to build their saddles!

Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell

Old time people used to say "What's sweet to nanny goat a go ruin you belly!"

Bob Marley - Simmer Down

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi Cowboygear,

You can get trees from Karon Harwood (Dale's wife) relatively quickly... about 2 1/2 to four months from what i've heard; They are made by Warren Wright. I don't have a phone number for Karon, perhaps Alan or Greg could email it to you. I'm not sure what kind of price they are going for but would suspect around $450.00 making them about $200.00 more than a factory tree that you'll probably have to wait two months for. If you absolutely have to cheap out somewhere, try to find some lower priced, domestically tanned leather like Alan suggested. If you can manage to buy better leather, Bowden will sell you a couple of #1 Hermann Oak sides at the best prices I've seen short of ordering from the tannery (usually a 10 side minimum).

If it works for what you want to build, I'd suggest building a roughout saddle to start... it's a little more forgiving finish wise and your seat and fork cover will mold a little easier cause you aren't fighting the grain of the leather. If you need advice while making that first one, make a post on the board here cause guys are quite willing to share some knowledge. If you can get a set of Jeremiah Watt's saddlemaking videos, it'll be the best $400.00 you'll ever spend.

Darc

[greg gomersall]

Once you have built a rig on a handmade tree you will realize how much easier they are to build on than a factory tree. They generaly don't have to be smoothed up or need much prep work and will have center line reference marks etc. They are worth every penny more in price. Call Sheridan Leather Outfitters in Sheridan Wy. they try to keep trees from Rod Nikkel, Bill Bean and Rick Read around the shop to sell. I don't think Rod or Rick are taking new customers at this time but you might try Bill Bean in Pearl, Idaho or you might be able to get Warren Wright trees from Karon Harwood in Shelly Idaho. Greg

[greg gomersall]

Karon just put the price of Warren's trees up to 500 that is what prettymuch everyone else is charging as well. Greg

[bruce johnson]

At least on Rod's trees, Sheridan Leather Outfitters has a drawing from interested customers when trees come in. They pull your name out of the hat, and you have first opportunity to buy the tree. I got one that way a couple months ago. It was what I would have ordered, so it worked out.

I agree with Darcy that Bowdens are probably the most consistant and better quality of the factory trees. I have had some problems with Hadlock&Fox, but they have been bought and moved since then. Superior is not the same Superior that was in Colorado. Enough said there.

Other sources to consider that are a step up. Sonny Felkins in Monticello UT and Timberline in Vernal UT are priced a little higher than the factories, but in my hands generally have a better product. My last Timberline was about $250-260, and the last from Sonny Felkins was $325 last fall. Bar and swell patterns seemed to be really close to each other.

[Elton Joorisity]

I know for a fact that Sheridan Leather Outfitters has(had) a Rod Nikkel tree in stock because I sent it there. Things are pretty busy around here and I had a tree that I had planned to build a spec saddle on. I needed to order some leather from S.L.O. and we got on the tree topic. Mentioned to Luke that I had one kicking around to trade and he said SOLD!!! It's a wood post Will James 16" can't remember all the specs but if it's still there Luke will let you know. Anyone out there needing a good supplier for just about anything to do with the trade should be sure to call Luke and Vandy!!! These are quite possibly the nicest people to talk to and deal with!!

[cowboygear]

I appreciate all the suggestions. I sorta need contact info like phone numbers ect. I have not been able to get in touch with anyone by name and location alone though I have tried. I am also going to need a few saddle maker hand tools if someone can suggest a good supplier. Thanks a bunch guys.

[ClayB]

I sorta need contact info like phone numbers ect. I have not been able to get in touch with anyone by name and location alone though I have tried. I am also going to need a few saddle maker hand tools if someone can suggest a good supplier. Thanks a bunch guys.

If you go to leatherworker.net website, not the forum at http://www.leatherworker.net and click on suppliers, it will give you links or contact info for a lot of leathercraft suppliers. If anyone has more info they would like added to the list, the is a link to do that on the bottom of the page.

Clay

[daviD A Morris]

Just in case you are interested, Denis Lane is also sending trees to the USA, not big quantaties, just a few. They are all sold through Bob Ray, in Parrowan UT (check spelling). They are quite pricey, but very best of quality. If you are interested email me directly and I will get the contact details for you.

regards

dam

[mudman]

David;

Sorry for the ignorance, but who is Denis Lane?

[daviD A Morris]

David;

Sorry for the ignorance, but who is Denis Lane?

Saddle tree maker in Australia. Originaly learned tree making at a Dale Harwood clinic in Australia back in the early nineties. Then around 2001 spent time in Canada and USA with a number of the top makers. Denis and I spent the month of May this year travelling around western part of the USA (6113 miles of driving to be exact).

regards

dam