pros and cons of acrylics and spirit dyes

[Alessandro]

Hello to everybody!

I am a newbie and I wanted to ask you in very general terms the pros and cons of acrylics and spirit dyes. Is it also the price for instance? I noticed I can easily find acrylics where I live but I can't find any spirit dye in any shop around me.... And does one spot the difference between acrylics and spirit dyes at the end?

Thank you for any help!

Alessandro

Switzerland

[ClayB]

Hi alessandro and welcome to this forum. If you read through some of the posts in the Dyes and Finishes section, you will find that the topic of acrylics vs. spirit dyes has been discussed before. One place is in this thread

http://www.leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=527

Most stores that carry art supplies will have acrylic because it is used by lots of different artists. I think spirit dyes probably have a more limited use outside of leather.

As for some basic differences between the two, acrylic is water based and can be diluted with water. Spirit dyes are alcohol based and need to be diluted with alcohol. Spirit dyes penetrate deeply into the leather and are permanant. Acrylic paint stays mostly on top of the leather. It is permanant too once dry, but you can work with it while it is wet. You can remove it with deglazer if you need too, but I would only do that as a last resort. Spirit dyes tend to fade more over time while acrylics are supposed to stay the same color forever. There are artists that can get wonderful results from either form of coloring. As with most things, it takes a lot of practice to get it right.

[yaklady]

Hi Alessandro,

Clay gave you a good run-down of the two kinds of color. If you ask me, spirit dyes are more difficult to use. Acrylics are more forgiving. If you mess up with them, you can always paint over the top. I'm an expert at fixing up messes. Have to be to survive! I like to seal the leather first, before painting it. Leather Glow is my favorite sealer for this purpose, but any acrylic sealer will do. I like Leather Glow because it adds color where it would other wise be hard to color, rather than having the bright color of new leather showing through in the cuts. Acrylics are readily available in many colors, and can be inexpensive.

Hope this helps. How are things in Switzerland?

Kathy

[Alessandro]

Hi Alessandro,

I like to seal the leather first, before painting it. Leather Glow is my favorite sealer for this purpose, but any acrylic sealer will do. I like Leather Glow because it adds color where it would other wise be hard to color, rather than having the bright color of new leather showing through in the cuts. Acrylics are readily available in many colors, and can be inexpensive.

Hope this helps. How are things in Switzerland?

Kathy

Ah, so you seal the leather beforehand! It's interesting. Do you also put a finish after colouring? I heard of the antique finish, but would it not pale down the colouring?

The only guy who is making saddles here has never heard of carving leather, he tried to stamp a circle in front of me on hard chrome-tanned leather without casing it when I went there (I was looking for leather to practice on but he had no veg. tanned one). There is a shoes-supplies shop 15 km frrom where I am but it's closing down. The local shoemaker and repairer is apparently at the top of shoemaking but quite reluctant of giving advices (just about glue, etc...). So I was ferry happy to discover this forum. Meanwhile, I slowly build up knowledge and suppliers.....I am also member of PSLAC.org which helps me a lot.

Apart from that, they say George Clooney's holidays home is just 10 miles away on Como lake (I ilve just at the border with Italy). Not that I notice this fact obviously, but maybe it's noteworthy. I like cooking as well, lasagne, gnocchi, pasta and ragu sauce, pesto, rabbit à la moutarde, chicken etc...

Ciao!

Alessandro

[Beaverslayer]

Welcome Alessandro,

Good to have you her on the forum. Always wanted to go to Switzerlabd, just never got the chance yet.

As far as "sealing" before dying, what you're actualy doing is opening the pores to accept the dye better and deeper. The sealing comes afterwards, once the dye has dried.

By the way, can you whip up a batch of that rabbit à la moutarde, and send it over? or post a recipe in the new thread on recipes.

Ken

[Alessandro]

By the way, can you whip up a batch of that rabbit à la moutarde, and send it over? or post a recipe in the new thread on recipes.

Ken

Eh, eh, the recipee I like is here http://perso.orange.fr/yves.huot-marchand/.../recette463.htm but it's in French.

Basically, you want to quickly fry in butter the (pieces of) rabbit together with finely chopped onions + salt & pepper to give it a "starting brown coating" then you gently cook it by adding the mustard sauce ( standard and coarse ones mixed together +white wine or just a little water to make the mustards a little more liquid than just mustard), lid on + little water if it dries too much. At the very end you add the cream and make it " less liquid" in about 2-3 minutes. Finished. Add salt to taste if necessary. 40 minutes.

Ops, I hope I did not break any forum rules....

Edited September 13, 2007 by Alessandro

[ClayB]

[quote name='Beaverslayer'

As far as "sealing" before dying, what you're actualy doing is opening the pores to accept the dye better and deeper. The sealing comes afterwards, once the dye has dried.

Ken

Ken,

Kathy mentioned using a sealer before applying acrylic paints. That's another difference between spirit dye and acrylic. Quite a few people apply a sealer before using acrylics. I am not sure the reason for that and maybe Kathy can explain it. One thing I have found that it does is makes it easier to remove paint if you mess up. Since the sealer keeps the paint from penetrating into the leather, you can "wash" it off to some extent. When I am done coloring with acrylics, I will then spray on a final coat of sealer to make the paint permanent.

Clay

[yaklady]

Ah, so you seal the leather beforehand! It's interesting. Do you also put a finish after colouring? I heard of the antique finish, but would it not pale down the colouring?

The only guy who is making saddles here has never heard of carving leather, he tried to stamp a circle in front of me on hard chrome-tanned leather without casing it when I went there (I was looking for leather to practice on but he had no veg. tanned one). There is a shoes-supplies shop 15 km frrom where I am but it's closing down. The local shoemaker and repairer is apparently at the top of shoemaking but quite reluctant of giving advices (just about glue, etc...). So I was ferry happy to discover this forum. Meanwhile, I slowly build up knowledge and suppliers.....I am also member of PSLAC.org which helps me a lot.

Apart from that, they say George Clooney's holidays home is just 10 miles away on Como lake (I ilve just at the border with Italy). Not that I notice this fact obviously, but maybe it's noteworthy. I like cooking as well, lasagne, gnocchi, pasta and ragu sauce, pesto, rabbit à la moutarde, chicken etc...

Ciao!

Alessandro

Hi Alessandro,

I learned to seal the leather from people like Robb Barr, Bob Beard and Jim Linnell. I perfer the Leather Glow with its antique effect simply because it darkens the cuts, which are other wise hard to color. Since you put it on first, it does not affect the color of the acrylics. You can paint leather without sealing it first, but I perfer the outcome with the sealer. After the paint is dry, I then spray on a final clear sealer, an acrylic one that you can find where you buy your paints. Don't put it on too heavy!

I hope that you can find some vegetable tanned leather. Are the tools available to you there?

Are you in the beautiful mountains that are always in the pictures of Switzerland? I don't know many people here who eat rabbit. Do you have any good yak recipes?

Chow!

Kathy

[Alessandro]

Hi Alessandro,

I learned to seal the leather from people like Robb Barr, Bob Beard and Jim Linnell. I perfer the Leather Glow with its antique effect simply because it darkens the cuts, which are other wise hard to color. Since you put it on first, it does not affect the color of the acrylics. You can paint leather without sealing it first, but I perfer the outcome with the sealer. After the paint is dry, I then spray on a final clear sealer, an acrylic one that you can find where you buy your paints. Don't put it on too heavy!

I hope that you can find some vegetable tanned leather. Are the tools available to you there?

Are you in the beautiful mountains that are always in the pictures of Switzerland? I don't know many people here who eat rabbit. Do you have any good yak recipes?

Chow!

Kathy

That's really useful, Kathy. I will do it that way, the names you mentionned are quite famous in the field I am learning.

I finally found vegetable tanned leather in Switzerland, all quite far away but mailing works well. I have the impression that the very few tools I found here are quite expensive and so I order them from the USA. I am just trying to build up knowledge of "chemical" suppliers for glues, finishing, paints, etc... for it's less expensive to avoid extra charges from customs from the USA, but US brand names are not easily available here and so I have to figure out what can be an equivalent product.

Attached is a view from my balcony, taken this summer (I like the sky). Immagine you land in Milan by plane (neares tintl. airport, about 40 minutes away). you are in flat land (the plain of the Po River with Lombardy, Piemont, Veneto etcc.. basically Northern Italy) then you drive North to the Switzerland border. After about 20 minutes you can see the first mountains of the Alps, the one you can see in the pictures. These are actually pre-Alps (about 3-4500 feet), the real ones come just beyond them (Mount Blanc, Mattherhorn, Eiger etc...), about 1 more hour drive and more if you move alond the crest directions...

Edited September 14, 2007 by Alessandro

[yaklady]

That's really useful, Kathy. I will do it that way, the names you mentionned are quite famous in the field I am learning.

I finally found vegetable tanned leather in Switzerland, all quite far away but mailing works well. I have the impression that the very few tools I found here are quite expensive and so I order them from the USA. I am just trying to build up knowledge of "chemical" suppliers for glues, finishing, paints, etc... for it's less expensive to avoid extra charges from customs from the USA, but US brand names are not easily available here and so I have to figure out what can be an equivalent product.

Attached is a view from my balcony, taken this summer (I like the sky). Immagine you land in Milan by plane (neares tintl. airport, about 40 minutes away). you are in flat land (the plain of the Po River with Lombardy, Piemont, Veneto etcc.. basically Northern Italy) then you drive North to the Switzerland border. After about 20 minutes you can see the first mountains of the Alps, the one you can see in the pictures. These are actually pre-Alps (about 3-4500 feet), the real ones come just beyond them (Mount Blanc, Mattherhorn, Eiger etc...), about 1 more hour drive and more if you move alond the crest directions...

I am happy to help, Alessandro. As far as your glues go, you may be able to find them in craft stores or hardware stores. I buy my contact cement at the local hardware store bcause it's cheaper. Check the lable to be sure it's compatable with leather. There is a white glue at our hobby store which is a lot like Leather Weld. They also have rubber cement. I'm sure you can find something without having to mail order.

Pre-Alps? That's an interesting way to put it. We have foothills, here. I live in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado, southwest of Denver. Our foothills are 6000 to 7000 feet high, but they aren't as pretty as yours. I'm at almost 9000 feet. When I figure out how to post pictures, I'll send you one.

Kathy