Conditioner And Repellent Testing, Feedback, and Ideas

[Otzi]

I have been working on a small lineup of leather care products for about 8 months now. It turned out to be quite a journey and I think I am pretty close to having products are top notch, I started out on this with the mindset that I would offer something that was somewhat unique but that would perform or outperform the best in the industry. Lofty goals for a guy with no financial backing, labs, etc. But my prelim testing has shown me that I am doing pretty good. I am looking for some input and ideas from yall here as there is an incredible amount of knowledge and experience on these forums.

 

Prelim Testing

My prelim testing thus far has mainly been for products ability to repel water and how that ability decreases over time. Also once the ability decreases near to a control piece of leather to test soak through. I am testing water repel simply by dropping two drops in different spots on new pieces of veg tan with different products applied exactly as per their instructions. I time how long it takes for the leather to absorb the water, time from the longest of the two drops is recorded. These are daily tests and one of the drops is put in the center of the test piece, each day a new drop is put in the center, and one drop is put on the leather on a previously untested section of leather.

The results on prelim testing have been surprising to me, with the products ability to repel water falling off drastically after 48 hours and most of them being back to an untreated state or near within one week. Until now all competitor products that I have tested have been AIO type products, meaning they advertise as a conditioner + repellent or even a waterproofer. My testing is saying to me that you cannot obtain good water repel that lasts without splitting up conditioner and wax / waterproofer into separate treatments. Reason being is the AIO tend to use a solvent which is needed as a carrier and to keep the end user application pleasing / friendly, but the kicker is solvents change the characteristics of the oils and waxes, especially waxes and degrade the performance drastically.

 

A Few Prelim Results

 

Moneysworth Heavy Duty Boot Protector:  Repel same day as application was very good, minimal absorption. 24 hours later full absorption of water drop in two minutes., and 72 hours later absorption is the same as the control piece which is 45 seconds.

 

Moneysworth Mink Oil: I do not think this is pure and the MSDS does not help. No test until 24 hours after application as instructions state to let it dry "overnight". I dropped the ball on testing a bit here, next day test showed good water repel with very little absorption. The next test which was 5 days later (I blame the kids lol) showed full water absorption in 2 minutes, the next test 7 days later was near to control piece at 1 minute and 5 seconds.

 

Fiebings 100% Pure Neatsfoot oil: Test after application full absorption in 4 minutes, the water and leather took on a grey blue tint. 9 days later absorption was 5 seconds off the control piece at 50 seconds. There were tests in between but keeping this short.

 

Atsko Sno-Seal: This one really surprised me. Test on same day as application was good, very small absorption ( I did not record a time in my notes), the day after full absorption in 1 minute 25 seconds, the following day three minutes, and the day after that two minutes. Day after test Is a bit weird, possibly because of the solvent they used not yet being evaporated, but at the same time I know I hit the temp needed to make their solvent do its magic, so not sure there.

 

I have two other products on the way, those being Montana pitch blend, and Leather honey. Are there any other products you guys would like to see tested? There will be much more extensive testing when I am ready. Current samples are all new veg tan, later testing will also test chrome tan. Water repel tests will use wetlands water and sea water, both near my house to see how products deal with those and also because samples will at the end be put away wet in drybags to see how they cope with mold, fungus, etc. Samples will be monitored longterm for oxidization and rancidity. I will also be seeing how products react to cold (-15C).

 

This is things a nutshell to keep it short. Is there are tests you guys would be interested in seeing? I am trying to keep them simple, well documented so anybody can reproduce them somewhat. 

 

My Mixes

 

I had also at first though to just offer one product that conditioned as well as repelled water, but it became clear after much testing that if you want the products to really perform these need to be separated, and not only that they have to be designed to work together. So in all fairness my samples performance greatly outperforms everything I have tested above but it also requires two separate applications, but a few of the products I will be testing are also similar, so that will be interesting!

When combined water repel on my conditioner + wax after 14 days is 25 minutes, just a slight absorption. Evaporation of the droplet on a waterproof surface at same ambient temp is about 33 minutes. My conditioner while it outperforms products I have tested so far does show the same tendency to drop sharply after 24 hours.  On the conditioner after 7 days complete absorption is happening in 6 minutes. The wax only is allowing absorption after 7 days in 14 minutes.

 

The Recipe

 

I use the following in my recipes:

- Birch tar oil ( I distill this)

- Blend of natural antioxidants and Tocopherol

- Coconut oil

- d-limonene

- beeswax

 

The ratios have been difficult to nail down, but I am close. I have some samples at the lab also where they are attempting to remove the color from the birch tar oil so I can offer a version of the mix that does not darken the leather so much. This mix does not go rancid, oxidative stability is excellent.

 

My Mix Pros

- Oxidative stability is exceptional

- Does not go rancid

- Does not deteriorate stitching in any way

- Very good at repelling water and saltwater longterm (just how long still under testing, this is relative to products compared)

- Highly resistant to mold, fungus, and bacteria, also an antiviral

- Does not block leathers ability to breathe

- Repels insects, bugs, worms, some rodents

- Acts as a restorer but does not overly soften leather

- Migration in warm temps appears minimal

 

My Mix Cons

- Two part application for full performance

- Darkens leather substantially (clear version in R&D)

- Imparts a strong smoky smell that is long-lasting. Some people love it, some do not.

- Will be on the high end of price range.

 

Thoughts, opinions, recommendations all appreciated.

 

 

[ScottWolf]

I make an all natural leather conditioner that has several of the same ingredients. You mentioned that your product darkens the leather a lot. The Coconut oil is part of the cause for that, it's inevitable as long as it's used. Reducing the ratio of coconut oil a good deal may help. An alternative is to use 100% organic almond oil or even castor oil,  in its place. Since this is a leather conditioning ingredient, all you need is an ingredient that does this, but doesn't darken the leather like coconut oil does. Coconut oil does have the lowest iodine value of all the natural oils but if its partly the cause of your product darkening the leather, I'd try replacing it with another oil I mentioned and see if that helps any. My guess is it may have a small effect since the birch tar is the other ingredient that is probably causing the darkening. 

Your goal is a water repellent/proofer so the addition of 100% organic anhydrous Lanolin would probably help in your formula, if it isn't already part of your  antioxidants and vitamin E/tocopherol concoction of ingredients. 

Since the Birch tar is the heavy lifter in your formula, getting it in a clear or yellow state, if not too difficult or costly, will probably help eliminate the darkening without loosing the qualities you are using it for. 

I don't know what type of consistency you want the end product in, but if you want it harder than a balm/body butter, try adding a very small amount of carnauba wax, and it will harden it up a lot more than the beeswax alone will. With beeswax a 1:2 ratio, with 1 being beeswax and the 2 your oils, will result in a hard/firm and sticky  and poor slip, final product. If you increase the second number after 2, it will continue to get softer and not sticky in the final form.  This is where the dash of carnauba can help you out, as its only job is to harden the final product up if you find your oil ratio is 3 or higher.   

[Otzi]

14 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

I make an all natural leather conditioner that has several of the same ingredients. You mentioned that your product darkens the leather a lot. The Coconut oil is part of the cause for that, it's inevitable as long as it's used. Reducing the ratio of coconut oil a good deal may help. An alternative is to use 100% organic almond oil or even castor oil,  in its place. Since this is a leather conditioning ingredient, all you need is an ingredient that does this, but doesn't darken the leather like coconut oil does. Coconut oil does have the lowest iodine value of all the natural oils but if its partly the cause of your product darkening the leather, I'd try replacing it with another oil I mentioned and see if that helps any. My guess is it may have a small effect since the birch tar is the other ingredient that is probably causing the darkening. 

Your goal is a water repellent/proofer so the addition of 100% organic anhydrous Lanolin would probably help in your formula, if it isn't already part of your  antioxidants and vitamin E/tocopherol concoction of ingredients. 

Since the Birch tar is the heavy lifter in your formula, getting it in a clear or yellow state, if not too difficult or costly, will probably help eliminate the darkening without loosing the qualities you are using it for. 

I don't know what type of consistency you want the end product in, but if you want it harder than a balm/body butter, try adding a very small amount of carnauba wax, and it will harden it up a lot more than the beeswax alone will. With beeswax a 1:2 ratio, with 1 being beeswax and the 2 your oils, will result in a hard/firm and sticky  and poor slip, final product. If you increase the second number after 2, it will continue to get softer and not sticky in the final form.  This is where the dash of carnauba can help you out, as its only job is to harden the final product up if you find your oil ratio is 3 or higher.   

 

@ScottWolf

 

Thank you for the tips and pointers, appreciated. I have tried a mix without the tar oil and the darkening is minimal on point with many of the products I have tested, so it really is the Birch tar oil which is doing it, no surprise there as it is near black. I have sent some oil off to a lab to see if they can take most of the color out of it, still waiting to hear back from them. If they are successful and the cost is ok I will offer both the clear and original mixes, I have sent a bunch of samples out to people and many of them love the darkening and patina type look it gives.

 

I am a little hesitant to add lanolin as I am reading a lot about it over softening leather, have you tried it and if so found that to be the case? I can always give it a shot as well, I do add a mix of oil soluble antioxidants and tocopherols to it as well. No vitamin E though.

The conditioner I am keeping it very soft enough so that it easily comes out of a squirt bottle, almost jel like. I have found a bit of a sweet spot in the ratio on it for the d-limonene and this consistency is the result of that ratio, it is easy to apply and absorbs well without warming the leather, but warming is still recommended as it does help. It absorbs and dries without leaving any type of film, or tacky feeling and sets the leather up well for the wax application. The wax mix is firm to the test but with a slight push it slips easy (at 20C ambient), the warmth of the finger and friction of rubbing on the leather is enough to melt it, it dries without leaving any tacky / sticky or any residue.

For the wax it is needed to warm the leather a bit otherwise absorption is not great. I am toying with the Carnauba but the mix is performing really well so not sure it would be necessary, I have also read that when carnauba comes in contact with water it swells, on the leather this might block off the ability to breathe while it is wet, not a huge deal though.

 

The latest mix of wax is really exceptional when the conditioner is applied first, there is 0 water absorption, it simply evaporates. Currently on day 7 since that new mix was applied, so it is pretty promising, yet to test the wax only and see how it does.

 

What ingredients do you use in your conditioner?

[ScottWolf]

4 hours ago, Otzi said:

 

@ScottWolf

 

I am a little hesitant to add lanolin as I am reading a lot about it over softening leather, have you tried it and if so found that to be the case? I can always give it a shot as well, I do add a mix of oil soluble antioxidants and tocopherols to it as well. No vitamin E though.

 

For the wax it is needed to warm the leather a bit otherwise absorption is not great. I am toying with the Carnauba but the mix is performing really well so not sure it would be necessary, I have also read that when carnauba comes in contact with water it swells, on the leather this might block off the ability to breathe while it is wet, not a huge deal though.

 

 

 

What ingredients do you use in your conditioner?

Lanolin won't over soften leather when used in moderation, just like any of the many other ingredients used on/in leather conditioners. I use it in my conditioner without any issues without over softening of the leather. Its ratio in the mix is not a lot and doesn't need to be as high as the others.

The carnauba is only used if you want to harden your product to a shoe polish like hardness or harder. The amount of carnauba needed in hardening or firming up a mixture that has a lot of oils in it is very small. If you decide to use it, I suggest you start off with very small ratios of it, as a little goes a very long way in getting a hard/firm product. If you used more carnauba then was needed in a product, I am sure that you might see some of the effects you mentioned. However used in the small amounts needed just to harden/firm a product up I can't see it having any negative effects on the leather in any way.In fact, it should be smallest ratio item in the mix, with the lanolin coming in just ahead of it. eg: .5, .25  If your product doesn't need firming/hardening up, I wouldn't add it.  

 

I use all organic 100% pure items. beeswax, coco butter, sweet almond oil, anhydrous lanolin, castor oil and carnauba for a hard version. For a soft balm/body butter version, I omit the carnauba.