saddle tree warranties?

[Alan Bell]

I had a fellow ask me this question and I answered to the best of my abilities but I also told him I would post on this forum. I know that Rod and Denise Nikkle check this forum out regularly and that David Ganadek used to but I am not sure how many other tree makers do. I know that there have been some questions posed here addressing certain tree makers so I assume some of us are talking to them directly and maybe they are just lurking anyways my buddies question is in regards to tree warranties. He ask; "if the "cheaper" tree makers offer a 5 yr warranty on their trees shouldn't one expect to get a longer warranty on a more expensive custom built tree?" I honestly had not considered asking any of the custom tree makers about a warranty so I really couldn't answer completely. He is having a cutting saddle built locally by one of the saddle shops/factories (there are about 100 of them in Greenville TX) and they priced it with a Beatties tree or the Bowden tree with the Bowden being the pricier one because the Bowden carried a better warranty at least that is what they told him.

Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell

They say the sun, the sun, the sun, shines for all. But there in some peoples world it never shines at all.

Bob Marley - Crisis

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Alan,

Since, as I think we might have mentioned before , “all tree makers do things differentlyâ€Â, we are not speaking for anyone else here. Call and talk to your tree maker about this question and see what they say.

A factory can turn out 100s of trees in a short time period, so it is cheaper for the factory to send out another of its cookie cutter trees than to take the time to find out what the problem is. Every one of our trees is individually made. Every situation has to be evaluated individually, because every situation is a bit different. So when we are asked a question about warranties, we don’t give out a number of years or a specific guarantee. We tell people that we stand behind our trees for strength and fit. If you have a problem, call us and we will do what we can to work with you on it. When you see 100 year old saddles that could still be ridden – if you could find a horse narrow enough for them to fit – you know that it is possible to build a tree for long term use. Five years for a tree should be just a fraction of its lifespan.

On the other hand, we need to find out what the situation was. For example, if you jumped your saddled horse into the trailer and the horn caught on the top of the door and broke, or if a horse threw a wreck and flipped over and rolled on the saddle a few times and it broke, that isn’t something that could be considered a “fault†in the tree. If we gave out a time period and said “guaranteedâ€Â, then we could still be held liable, which wouldn’t be proper in this case. But if anything is damaged in normal use, we want to hear about it – two, ten or twenty years later. We don’t say you can’t break one of our trees, because anything can be broken, but we do say we want to hear the story, because it is going to be good. (And in 11 ½ years, we have yet to have a broken tree come back to us, though we have heard some “good†stories about trees that didn’t break in the meantime).

As far as fit goes, it can get even more complicated. We do all we can to help the saddle maker get what they need for their customer’s horses. But if you order the wrong size for the horses the tree is used on, or put the rigging in crooked, or if the owner sets the saddle up on top of the shoulder blades and holds it there with a breast collar, or if there is a problem caused by any of the myriad of things other than the tree that affects how a saddle fits, we can’t be held liable for that. If, on the other hand, there ever was a problem attributable to a defect in the tree that sores horses, we would do whatever was necessary to rectify the mistake.

The bottom line for us, and probably a lot of the individual makers, is that it is our name that is on that tree, whether we put it on two, ten, twenty or more years ago. And in protecting their good name, you will probably find the hand makers more likely than a large company to bend over backward to help keep their customers happy. That explanation may or may not satisfy a saddle customer, but it generally satisfies the saddle maker. After all, it is their name that goes on the finished product, and most custom saddle makers feel the same way.

[bruce johnson]

Alan,

Different companies use to have different 5 year guarantees also. Some give a full 100% guarantee the full 5 years. Others prorate it out - 80% after 1 year. 70% after 2 years, etc. The saddlemaker/customer is out the time and dollars to rebuild. Has the saddlemaker given him THEIR warranty. How long do they guarantee the work they do? The bottom line is that it is almost always economically better to toss a 5 year old saddle with a broken low end tree on a price point saddle, than to go through the warranty hassle. Unless the saddle has been in a wreck (in which case the tree guarantee might not even apply), the tree better outlast the leather and woolskin the saddlemaker chose. It sounds like he is comparing a $125 tree to a $175 tree. I really think the maker must be working pretty close to the bone to offer the customer the choice of tree maker. Sounds like they are shifting some responsibilty onto a guy who really isn't qualified to judge which tree is better based on anything but a warranty. Having him set the two trees on his horses to compare fit would be more productive than checking warranties. My thoughts.

[greg gomersall]

Back in the late 80's when I was apprenticing under Hank he had a customer come in with a saddle Hank had made a couple years before on a Hercules tree. The horse had slipped in the mountians and fell about 70 feet off an edge. The tree was crushed. I took it apart and we sent the tree back. The owner of the tree company called to see what had happened and Hank told him. The reply was "do you expect us to warrenty that". Hank said your warrenty says "unconditional". They covered it but I don't think a tree-maker should have to cover something along the line of this or even stupidity on the owners part. When I have a question like this from a customer I tell them "No warrenty expressed or implied". If you rope a bull and things don't make it thru we'll work with you. Do something stupid like drive over it or have it fall off the back of the truck and get drug under the trailer tough luck. (I have seen more than one saddle drug under the trailer).. Greg

[Alan Bell]

Thanks for the replies, They pretty much sum up what i told the guy. He's just the kind of guy that makes a good "Devil's Advocate" and he will pay for a custom tree in a custom saddle and pretty much knows what to expect but was setting up a scenario for me to puzzle over. I tell folks my warranties are for life (MY LIFE) after I'm dead and gone so is the warranty, don't chase down my kids! Rod and/or Denise I like how you compare the 5 yr warranty over the useful life of a quality made saddle and I may put things in those terms to make it easier to see how a cheaper tree with a 5 yr warranty is REALLY inferior to a quality tree that though no warranty is expressed or implied will still carry its makers reputation with it and will probably be replaced after 20+ yrs if a defect shows then while the five yr warranty saddle maker would tell the customer that it's out of warranty!

Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell

Now the fire's burning out of control, panic in the city, wicked weeping for their gold!

Bob Marley - Ride Natty Ride

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Of course, if it takes 20 years for a "defect" to show up, the question would be "Is it really a defect, or what else changed in the meantime?" All part of the communication process. But I have learned to never say never...

Edited September 22, 2007 by Rod and Denise Nikkel