Juki LU-563 or Seiko STH 8bld-3

[MCFromCanada]

Hi everyone,

I’ve become an avid reader during these lockdowns, and recently purchased an LU-562. 
I absolutely love the machine, and have completed pretty much every adjustment with success with the help of all of you on here, and YouTube as well. So thank you for all of the great info!

I am using the machine for hobby use only. Mostly canvas work for boat covers, a few leather projects with a max of 15oz combined layers of leather. I’m always finding projects with multiple layers of webbing as well. Going forward, my projects will be much of the same materials, but I wouldn’t be opposed to going even more heavy duty either, as I have a home machine that seems to handle V92 and a size 18 through quite a few layers already.

 
I’ve got an opportunity to move up in the world of machines, to an LU-563 that has been rebuilt (after factory use), or a brand new Seiko STH 8bld-3. Both with servo motors. Pricing is very reasonable for either unit. 
 

I was dead set on another Juki, but some of the downsides to it that I’ve found are tension adjustments on the bobbin are very cumbersome with having to take the bobbin case out each time, and my projects are always on the small side, so I do like to switch thread sizes frequently. 
Also, the slotted machine screws in one or two spots have completely seized up, causing me not to be able to loosen them with any success as of yet. It’s not the end of the world, but I always plan on servicing my machines, and this is a downfall to me if a future machine has similar problems.

The Seiko has a horizontal axis bobbin of course, and comes out for adjustments with ease. 10mm stitch length, a larger needle size range up to a size 24 (I’d like to use 207 on the top from time to time), hex bolts underneath for adjustments, and it is brand new of course. 
 

Information on the Seiko is scarce. I am familiar with them being the manufacturer of both Seiko, and the Consew 206 older models. I’ve only found a few very positive remarks about them, and absolutely nothing negative. 

Can anyone here give me some real comparisons between the two machines, from your direct experience, and some opinions on whether the brand new vs. used and rebuilt is enough to sway a purchase decision?

Thanks!

[DonInReno]

In factory settings machines are run into the ground, rebuilt and run into the ground over and over.   The quality and thoroughness of a rebuild can vary greatly, and you will need to inspect all of the wear surfaces carefully.   Many machines claiming to be rebuilt are only adjusted, cleaned and have a $5 paint job.

I keep buying used factory machines, but I’d still vote for the new Seiko if those were the only choices.

[kgg]

I would personally pass on both the used Juki and the new Seiko STH 8bld-3. The Juki was used in a commercial environment and is an old machine probably beat to death. Who knows how many times it was previously rebuild and by who. If it was used by a hobbyist and showed little signs of use (paint not worn off the bed, deep thread tracks in thread guides, etc) I may consider it if it was priced in the $600 to $800 CA price range. The Seiko STH 8bld-3 will max out on a #22 needle which is the bottom end of V138 (fabric use) and the one needle size up needed to sew V92 in thick /tough materials. I got that information from the Seiko website ( http://www.seiko-sewing.co.jp/en/products/sth-8bld-3/  ). If you want to use V207 top and V138 bobbin you need to look at machines in the Juki 1541 class.

kgg

Edited February 1, 2021 by kgg
spelling error

[MCFromCanada]

Thanks for the replies Don and kgg,

 

I’m a little confused with some of your info though kgg? I am under the impression that the Standard Needle size of #22 is not the max size needle, and can’t seem to find the source now, but #24 was what I had seen. Wherever I had read it, 16-24 was the range.

Also, the Seiko machine is exactly the same as the Japanes made 206rb’s no? From what I’ve read in numerous places, both the Consew 206rb, and the Juki Lu-562/563 can handle 207 top and 138 bottom, with the 563 having two major advantages; bobbin size, and the ability to put the 1508 hook assembly in for 208 capacity on the bottom as well.

If I’ve got the wrong information, please let me know!

I agree with what you say about factory ran 563’s. I would not make a purchase without a detailed inspection, and feel pretty comfortable doing it from all of the work I’ve done on that class of machine now. I will continue to keep my eye open for something with less use though, if you hear of anything in ON, please let me know.

 

 

[DonInReno]

 I have an older Consew 206rb (big bobbin) that’s made in Japan by Seiko and it’s every bit as smooth and well built as my lu-562, so I’d recommend one of these if they come up.  The newer Consew 206rb are made in China, but how closely they compare to the new Seiko is something I don’t know anything about.

Just keep looking and something will pop up eventually!

 

[kgg]

20 hours ago, MCFromCanada said:

I’m a little confused with some of your info though kgg? I am under the impression that the Standard Needle size of #22 is not the max size needle, and can’t seem to find the source now, but #24 was what I had seen. Wherever I had read it, 16-24 was the range.

I went by the Seiko website information which I would assume to be the most up to date information available on their machines.

On 1/31/2021 at 3:26 PM, MCFromCanada said:

Mostly canvas work for boat covers, a few leather projects with a max of 15oz combined layers of leather.

With wanting to sew 15 ounces of combined thickness of leather which is going to be approximately 0.25 inches (6.4mm) thick. To do that constantly without damaging your machine you need to look at much heavy machines in the 441 class which would be cylinder machines. Your Juki 1541/ 1508 as well as their clones will sew approximately 0.38 inches (9.5 mm) thick stuff while the cylinder bed machines like the Juki 341 / 1341 as well as their clones will sew approximately 0.5 inches (12.7 mm) thick, still below what you would like.

Clone machines in the next class up (441 class) are expensive and the Juki machines are really expensive. Finding a used 441 class machine is probably going to be difficult, I think I have seen two maybe three in the last couple of years.

The alternative would be to have two machines one for the lighter stuff, probably in the Juki 1541 class and eventually a cylinder bed for the heavier needs.

20 hours ago, MCFromCanada said:

1508 hook assembly in for 208 capacity on the bottom as well.

There are two versions of the 1508 hook assembly the one for the 1508 NS and the 1508 NH. The "NH" is the version assembly you'd need to get the V207 capacity. Will it fit in a Consew??? You would need to ask a dealer / repair shop knowledgeable with doing that kind of upgrade.

Which part of Ontario are you in?

kgg

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Northmount
Corrected measurement conversions

[Wizcrafts]

I owned a Juki LU-563 for several years and never could get it to sew with #207 thread. It absolutely maxed out with #138 and fought me most of the time with that thread and the #23 needle required to clear that thread on top and bottom. I considered myself lucky to get my money back when I sold it.

[kgg]

9 hours ago, kgg said:

With wanting to sew 15 ounces of combined thickness of leather which is going to be approximately 0.6 inches (15.24mm) thick. To do that constantly without damaging your machine you need to look at much heavy machines in the 441 class which would be cylinder machines. Your Juki 1541/ 1508 as well as their clones will sew approximately 0.38 inches (9.5 mm) thick stuff while the cylinder bed machines like the Juki 341 / 1341 as well as their clones will sew approximately 0.5 inches (12.7 mm) thick, still below what you would like.

I have to correct my leather thickness calculations: 15 oz leather would be approximately 0.25 inches (6.4 mm) not 0.6 inches (15.24mm) thick. Therefore any machine in 1541 class would work.

Sorry my error,

kgg

[MCFromCanada]

Thanks for the clarification kgg 

I have been doing about 15oz of leather currently with my Juki with no issues, but it’s always nice to have the room to go bigger. I just can’t justify something in the 1541 price range, so I thought I’d at least move up to a newer machine for the time being. 
 

What I had meant to say in my last post, is that I have read that the LU-563 can take the 1508NH hook, not the Consew 206, but from what you and Wizcrafts posted, 207 is best left to the next class of machines. Thank you to both of you for that info!

I’m a couple hours north of Toronto, but willing to travel to look at the right machine. Which area are you from?

[kgg]

I am located about halfway between Ottawa and Kingston. When I buy a new machine I like to keep within a 4 hr radius which would get me to Toronto in the west and Montreal in the east. Much better prices in the GTA then Ottawa. I would recommend for a new machine Japan Sewing Machine and Supply at (905) 764-0100 ask for Chris. They don't sell used machines. I have bought two new flatbeds Juki's (1181N and 1541S) off him and a new cylinder bed clone of theirs called the Kobe LS-1341 which is a clone of the Juki 341. Obvious, I have found Chris really good to deal with, no BS and good prices. As far a used machines there are a lot of dealers who carry used machines in the GTA but I don't have any experience with any of them. Someone else maybe able to give you other recommendations.

Best of luck,

kgg

[MCFromCanada]

Spoke to Chris today. He definitely has excellent pricing for the Juki/Kobe brands.

 

Thanks kgg

[Pintodeluxe]

I've had both models, and can say they're both good machines.  I prefer the huge U style top loading bobbin on the Juki 563.  

The stated capacity is about 3/8" of leather stock.  Of course my Juki is far from stock.  I switched it to longer 190 system needles and added a box style speed reducer and servo.  I think it would see through plywood now.  

I wouldn't use either machine with any thread heavier than 138.  Even that may take modifications to sew consistently well.  I almost always use 92 thread and those upholstery class machines are happy all day.

[MCFromCanada]

Since you’ve had both models Pinto, can you tell me if the Seiko has an adjustment like the Juki has to help it climb over large sections of material?

I have found this to be a very helpful adjustment on my Juki when sewing through multiple thick layers, and I didn’t see a similar adjustment on the Seiko. 
 

Also, besides the bobbin size, did you find any other major advantages or disadvantages for one machine vs. the other?

[Pintodeluxe]

Yes, they both have slotted wing nuts to adjust stepping height.  

The Juki is a top loader, and the Seiko is a side loader.  I'm clumsy with my left hand under the table, so I prefer a top loader for my main machine.  

You can get used to using either.  

[Bridge]

Did you buy either of the two machines mentioned?

[Pintodeluxe]

Yes, I bought both machines.  I only kept the Juki LU-563 though.  My reasons were this...

1.  I prefer top loading bobbin.

2.  The 563 features a huge U style bobbin.  It's quite a bit bigger than an M style bobbin.  

These are just my personal preferences, and the Seiko is a good machine too.  The Early 206rb, 206rb-1, 206rb-2 are good machines too.  

Edited June 30, 2021 by Pintodeluxe