Topcoat question

[WaG35]

I just finished a hoster dyed with Fiebings oil dye. I topcoated with Leather balm with atom wax(2 coats). Is this going to be enough to keep the dye from bleeding onto my pants? Or do I need to seal it with something else? I can't seem to get this stuff off my fingers, so it may not be a problem, but thought I would ask.

[abn]

I think it depends on an intermediate step between dyeing and top-coating. Did you vigorously rub the surface of your holster prior to adding the top coat? Sometimes, pigment particles sit on top of the leather after dyeing and can bleed through a top coat to clothing, etc.

Assuming you did buff your project prior to adding the final finish, you should be good to go with Leather Balm.

Alex

[Regis]

I really like the look I got from Leather balm with atom wax. I have been using Super Sheen or Resolene and tried Leather balm with atom wax for the 1st time a couple days ago. It did marvolus job on a holster.

Alex, thanks for the heads-up on that.

Regis

[WaG35]

Actually, I didn't buff if prior to topcoat, didn't know i needed to. Is it too late to do that and recoat with the leather balm?

[TracyMoss]

You might want to use some deglazer to strip the finish a little bit. Let it dry and redo as you said

[abn]

Before you go through the trouble of stripping your top coat, why don't you try buffing the surface now? Use a piece of white T-shirt and see if you're getting any rub-off. If you used any color other than black, you probably don't have a problem and can leave it as-is.

But if you are getting rub-off, the only fix is to do as Tracy suggests and deglaze.

[Leather Bum]

Here's just a note to keep in mind about the Leather Balm with Atom Wax. . . since you mentioned you used it on a holster. Fiebing's website describes it as,

"A specially formulated liquid wax finish for coloring, softening and polishing articles of smooth leather. Can be buffed to a rich, soft, velvety lustre. Leather Balm with Atom Wax is not a water resistant top finish." [emphasis added]

L'Bum

[SCOUTER]

Hello Wag, Just a quick note- Dyes and paints are nothing more then pigments suspended in either a water or solvent base. When we stain, dye or paint an object, the thicker the pigment the less absorption. Stains and dyes tend to absorb into the workpiece and paint lays mostly on top. Some stains and dyes have such a well blended and fine pigment that most of it gets sucked into the leather, but depending on the absorption of your leather, some particles might remain "on the surface". Therefore it's always a good idea to buff the surface after the dye/stain dries and then apply the next treatment.

Just a note, I have had dyes (USMC Black) that really sink in and after drying will not rub off at all (like a magic marker) and other dyes like a Red Mahogany that leaves alot of pigment on the top.

As for getting the dye off your fingers... Leather dye is really hard to get off your fingers... Wear gloves!

[WaG35]

thanks for all the comments. This was the first project that I have dyed, so it doesn't suprise me that I made some mistakes. The guy at Tandy sold me the leather balm, and I told him what I was going to be using it for. After I read the bottle at home, I was a little worried about what I was using it for. Any ideas on what I should be using as a top coat that will give me some water repellent?

[SCOUTER]

Wag- There are two basic types of waterproofers/sealers for leather- Breathable and Non-breathable. We use breathable sealers on clothing like Boots, Shoes, Gloves... They let the leather breath (somewhat) or "vent" and consist of Shoe polish, silicone sprays, snow-proof, waxes... The non-breathable finishes like poly-coat, Laquer, Super Sheen... They seal the leather.

Since holsters don't need to vent perspiration and water-resistance is a plus, you can go with the wipe on acrylic finishes that is very much like the water based poly-finishes that you would use on wood. The problem you might have is that those type of finishes don't adhere well to a waxed or oiled surface. (like yours now) So unless you prep your holster by scrubing the surface with a good cleaner, you might have problems with the sealer type finishes.

We have some awesome holster makers here that have their finishes just right.

Good Luck!

[abn]

To expand a bit on what Scouter is saying, it's true that the older spirit-based dyes consist of pigment particles suspended in alcohol. The failure of some of these particles to be absorbed into the leather causes rub-off. Now, the new water-based dyes, like Eco-Flo, contain liquid pigment. The result is no rub-off, but the trade-off is that this dye is more sensitive to water exposure.

It's my opinion that your holster is probably fine just the way it is. Most of your dye probably absorbed and Leather Balm's waxy finish will provide some measure of water resistance. Anytime I've ever tried to "re-do" a finish, I've always screwed it up and made it worse, so proceed with caution! :excl:

In the future, you're probably going to want to use Super Shene or Satin Shene, as Scouter suggests. It's a good acrylic finish that is water-resistant, but allows absorption of conditioners.

Alex

[bcurrier]

Hello Wag, Just a quick note- Dyes and paints are nothing more then pigments suspended in either a water or solvent base. When we stain, dye or paint an object, the thicker the pigment the less absorption.

The technical difference is that dyes bond chemically with the material being dyed, while paint pigments do not. More accurately, they actually change form. Dyes need reagents to trigger the chemical reactions, and not just for the bond, but to make them colorfast. Those can be in the dye already or added separately. There are fewer available reagents for water-based dyes and very few good ones. The reagents are typically strong alkalis (sometimes acids) or metal salts, which can be handled properly in an industrial environment and removed from or corrected for in the material being dyed, but those considerations obviously have to be compromised for a pre-mixed or home-use product.

Dye problems are compounded with a material like leather in that moisture and the various fats and oils contained in it absorb the dyes also - and don't bond with the dye, unlike the tissues themselves. Even the best dyes are problematic for leather because of the huge variations in hides, tanning methods and materials, and condition. Add that to the need to use an off-the-shelf product and the results are bleed, rub-off, splotchiness, and fading.

Bill

Edited February 7, 2008 by bcurrier

[Warren]

I've used Tan Cote on all my holsters so far and have never had any problems with dye bleeding. One of my holsters was accidentally left outside at deer camp during a rain storm. It sat in water all night in the bed of a truck. We stuffed it with paper to draw the water out of the inside and let it dry slowly. When it was dry the gun still fit and the color didn't bleed. I don't think you can ask for more than that.

[kseidel]

Fiebiengs makes a product called colorless harness dressing. It is one of the best kept secrets in the business! It is a durable finish that seals out stains, protects the finish, seals dyes, and is not affected by water. It can be re-applied many times without noticable buildup, and dries to a satin finish. It protects nearly as well as laquer, but can be oiles through without stripping first. It is hard to find a supplier who stocks it, and takes some practice to learn to apply without streaking, but well worth the effort. Keith

[LuisPaulo]

Hi.

About Breathable and Non breathable seals.

Some people here critique some of my works (sheaths) because I use acrylic finish that "seal" the leather. They said don't let the leather "breath" and this deteriorate the leather. Is it true ?????

Regards from Brazil.

[abn]

I don't think acrylic finishes completely seal the leather. I've used Satin Shene for five years now, and I've never had a problem conditioning the leather later, whether using Lexol or neatsfoot oil or something similar. A good test is to take an oiled rag and run it across a piece of leather finished with acrylic. After a minute or so, you should see that the oil has absorbed -- i.e. it's not still on the surface making the item slick.

I assume there are products out there that can completely seal the leather, but I guess they would be some sort of lacquer that would sit on top of the leather forming a hard barrier. As you're aware, acrylic products mostly absorb into the leather (not sit on top of it), and this allows them to breathe.

Someone else here may offer a different opinion, but my experience leads me to believe that acrylic finishes are breathable and conditionable ones.

Alex