Source For Needle Plates Etc.

[Ferg]

Source for Consew 206RB-5 Needle plates, left toe and right toe and narrow harness foot.

ferg

[Wizcrafts]

Source for Consew 206RB-5 Needle plates, left toe and right toe and narrow harness foot.

ferg

There is only one throat cover (you called it a needle plate) for your machine and you have it.

You can find left and right toe pressor feet on eBay, but most have teeth on the bottom. You will really have to search through the listings to find a smooth set. I resorted to buying extra standard double toe pressor feet and grinding off the left or right toe.

There are no harness feet for a Consew 206RB. You will have to make your own narrow double toe set, by grinding off material from both outside surfaces of a standard outer foot.

If you thought that a Consew 206RB is a harness stitcher, you were mistaken. It is an upholstery machine that is very capable of sewing leather.

The feet you described are often included with Cobra and Cowboy stitchers. Those machines are twice as big and expensive as your Consew 206. They are specifically built to sew harnesses, bridles, collars, reins, etc. They are the machines that have alternate throat plates and harness foot sets.

[Ferg]

There is only one throat cover (you called it a needle plate) for your machine and you have it.

You can find left and right toe pressor feet on eBay, but most have teeth on the bottom. You will really have to search through the listings to find a smooth set. I resorted to buying extra standard double toe pressor feet and grinding off the left or right toe.

There are no harness feet for a Consew 206RB. You will have to make your own narrow double toe set, by grinding off material from both outside surfaces of a standard outer foot.

If you thought that a Consew 206RB is a harness stitcher, you were mistaken. It is an upholstery machine that is very capable of sewing leather.

The feet you described are often included with Cobra and Cowboy stitchers. Those machines are twice as big and expensive as your Consew 206. They are specifically built to sew harnesses, bridles, collars, reins, etc. They are the machines that have alternate throat plates and harness foot sets.

Wiz,

I was aware of the capabilities of the machine I have coming tomorrow you managed to get me informed on that. I know that I will need to have the capability of sewing close to a

raised/formed part of an item. There must be an answer to the impressions left on the top

side of the leather piece. I think this is going to be a research/engineering project for after Christmas. Are the bottom "Dogs" going to be a problem when you have a finished leather on the

back side?

I understand that the sharp tips may need a little "softening". Trial an error perhaps? I can see you wouldn't want to take much off or there wouldn't be any feed of the leather.

The dogs are adjustable up and down, right? Does adjusting them help any with the marks on the underside?

ferg

[TwinOaks]

Ferg, if you decide to lower the dogs, be careful that they are either completely down, or have enough still raised to get a good purchase on the leather. I made some really nice scuffs when I tried to lower the feed dogs on a little machine and got them just low enough to skid along the leather.

For the presser foot marks......fine tune the pressure, and keep a modeling tool handy.

[Ferg]

Ferg, if you decide to lower the dogs, be careful that they are either completely down, or have enough still raised to get a good purchase on the leather. I made some really nice scuffs when I tried to lower the feed dogs on a little machine and got them just low enough to skid along the leather.

For the presser foot marks......fine tune the pressure, and keep a modeling tool handy.

I have some more thoughts.

My machine is coming tomorrow and I will not have time to play for another 7 or 8 weeks, may not even get it set up.

The Walking Feet: I have watched a video of them moving/working but ...... When the needle goes down through the leather the right foot is down, correct?

At this time is the left foot up? Then as the needle is raised from the stitch/leather the left foot is down to hold the leather in place, the right foot is up? Or are both feet down at this time?

The dogs would need to be able to move the leather when one or both feet are down?

The impression from the presser feet is a design flaw as far as I am concerned. What if the presser feet were larger, as in longer with left foot, in one instance, also wider.

I seem to understand the impression is made by the left foot? Or do both of them make marks. Hasn't anyone ever tried to engineer the feet so they do not make impressions?

I aim that to some folks across the pond.

Sorry for so many questions.

ferg

[Wizcrafts]

I have some more thoughts.

The Walking Feet: I have watched a video of them moving/working but ...... When the needle goes down through the leather the right foot is down, correct?

At this time is the left foot up? Then as the needle is raised from the stitch/leather the left foot is down to hold the leather in place, the right foot is up? Or are both feet down at this time?

Actually, the inside pressor foot moves up/down/fwd/bkwd with the needle. The outer foot can be left or right or double toe. It's only job is to secure the material between stitches, while the inside foot and needle are up.

The dogs would need to be able to move the leather when one or both feet are down?

Yes, the deed dogs move the material from the bottom, in concert with the needle and inside pressor foot.

The impression from the presser feet is a design flaw as far as I am concerned. What if the presser feet were larger, as in longer with left foot, in one instance, also wider.

The outer pressor foot comes in a variety of styles, each designed for a different use. There are narrow outer feet, standard and extra wide feet. Inside feet are also available in several widths and lengths. I have a a set of left toe zipper feet that only occupy 1/4" width.

I seem to understand the impression is made by the left foot? Or do both of them make marks. Hasn't anyone ever tried to engineer the feet so they do not make impressions?

I have sanded and buffed some pressor feet to make the slightest impression possible. That, and backing off the main pressor foot spring, while increasing the pressure on the inside foot can give a nice result.

Sorry for so many questions.

That is why this forum exists. There are no dumb questions.

Now, I feel it is necessary to impart some advanced technological information to you, regarding the function of the feed dog. It is true that the feed dog is partially responsible for moving the work the set stitch length. This is the basis of most bottom feeders. However, the feed dog on a walking foot machine has a second function; one that is critical to the operation of the machine. Read on...

When you get your new Consew 206RB set-up, rotate the hand wheel towards you (CCW direction) from the top and watch the action of the pressor feet very closely. If the machine has been properly adjusted by the shipper or seller, you will notice that as the inside foot and needle come down, just as the needle reaches the plane of the feed dog, the inside foot makes intimate contact with the top center of the feeder. As you continue to rotate the wheel (slowly), the feeder will move backwards, as will the inside foot and needle. When the feeder reaches the end of its travel, as determined by the stitch length setting, the needle and inside foot will begin to lift up. At this moment, the feed dog moves under the throat plate surface and is brought forward, to begin the next cycle.

If the feed dog is lowered to avoid marking the bottom of the leather, the inside foot will push the leather down into the now basically evacuated, rectangular slot in the throat plate. The leather will tend to stick down into this gap and will fight the action of the needle and inside foot. This will either result in broken needles, or stitches that vary in length. You will immediately lose a good portion of the preset stitch length, due to drag.

Further, since the leather will give at the bottom, when the inside foot comes down under pressure, the timing of the lifting will be thrown off. The inside foot may not lift when it reaches the back of the preset stitch length; it may in fact lift late, and less than normal. You see, the inside foot depends on the solid bottom provided by the steel feed dog to perform its lift and move action.

If the inside foot stays on the material too long, the outside foot will also stay down too long. This will further reduce your available stitch length, due to pronounced drag of the double sprung pressor feet.

Lastly, you will lose any semblance of an equal reverse stitching action, as the timing of the lifting and lowering of the alternating pressor feet are tied to the feed dog being at the correct height, at the necessary time in the cycle.

If the teeth on the feed dog present a problem for critical jobs, I would recommend purchasing another dog and have the top milled or ground flat, then polished. Then, raise the height of the feeder to match the original setting above the throat plate. This will give you the bottom feed and support needed to both move the material and actuate the alternating pressor feet. This assumes that there is enough material inside the feed dog to grind off the teeth and not cut through to the underside of the oblong hole, enlarging it to a ludicrous size.

Or, one could just have the teeth ground or filed down, leaving the smooth center bar and hole intact. This may disturb the timing, but not to the degree that lowering the feed dog all the way will do.

All of this work can be avoided by purchasing a harness stitcher with a flat topped, smooth feed dog (with a 1/8"+ hole). The Adler 205-374 is such a machine. Its smooth feed dog can probably be used on 441 clones, like the Cobra, or modified for use on them. I don't know of any such feeder that is on the market for walking foot machines like the Consew 206RB, but I could be wrong.

[Ferg]

Actually, the inside pressor foot moves up/down/fwd/bkwd with the needle. The outer foot can be left or right or double toe. It's only job is to secure the material between stitches, while the inside foot and needle are up.

Yes, the deed dogs move the material from the bottom, in concert with the needle and inside pressor foot.

The outer pressor foot comes in a variety of styles, each designed for a different use. There are narrow outer feet, standard and extra wide feet. Inside feet are also available in several widths and lengths. I have a a set of left toe zipper feet that only occupy 1/4" width.

I have sanded and buffed some pressor feet to make the slightest impression possible. That, and backing off the main pressor foot spring, while increasing the pressure on the inside foot can give a nice result.

That is why this forum exists. There are no dumb questions.

Now, I feel it is necessary to impart some advanced technological information to you, regarding the function of the feed dog. It is true that the feed dog is partially responsible for moving the work the set stitch length. This is the basis of most bottom feeders. However, the feed dog on a walking foot machine has a second function; one that is critical to the operation of the machine. Read on...

When you get your new Consew 206RB set-up, rotate the hand wheel towards you (CCW direction) from the top and watch the action of the pressor feet very closely. If the machine has been properly adjusted by the shipper or seller, you will notice that as the inside foot and needle come down, just as the needle reaches the plane of the feed dog, the inside foot makes intimate contact with the top center of the feeder. As you continue to rotate the wheel (slowly), the feeder will move backwards, as will the inside foot and needle. When the feeder reaches the end of its travel, as determined by the stitch length setting, the needle and inside foot will begin to lift up. At this moment, the feed dog moves under the throat plate surface and is brought forward, to begin the next cycle.

If the feed dog is lowered to avoid marking the bottom of the leather, the inside foot will push the leather down into the now basically evacuated, rectangular slot in the throat plate. The leather will tend to stick down into this gap and will fight the action of the needle and inside foot. This will either result in broken needles, or stitches that vary in length. You will immediately lose a good portion of the preset stitch length, due to drag.

Further, since the leather will give at the bottom, when the inside foot comes down under pressure, the timing of the lifting will be thrown off. The inside foot may not lift when it reaches the back of the preset stitch length; it may in fact lift late, and less than normal. You see, the inside foot depends on the solid bottom provided by the steel feed dog to perform its lift and move action.

If the inside foot stays on the material too long, the outside foot will also stay down too long. This will further reduce your available stitch length, due to pronounced drag of the double sprung pressor feet.

Lastly, you will lose any semblance of an equal reverse stitching action, as the timing of the lifting and lowering of the alternating pressor feet are tied to the feed dog being at the correct height, at the necessary time in the cycle.

If the teeth on the feed dog present a problem for critical jobs, I would recommend purchasing another dog and have the top milled or ground flat, then polished. Then, raise the height of the feeder to match the original setting above the throat plate. This will give you the bottom feed and support needed to both move the material and actuate the alternating pressor feet. This assumes that there is enough material inside the feed dog to grind off the teeth and not cut through to the underside of the oblong hole, enlarging it to a ludicrous size.

Or, one could just have the teeth ground or filed down, leaving the smooth center bar and hole intact. This may disturb the timing, but not to the degree that lowering the feed dog all the way will do.

All of this work can be avoided by purchasing a harness stitcher with a flat topped, smooth feed dog (with a 1/8"+ hole). The Adler 205-374 is such a machine. Its smooth feed dog can probably be used on 441 clones, like the Cobra, or modified for use on them. I don't know of any such feeder that is on the market for walking foot machines like the Consew 206RB, but I could be wrong.

Wiz,

As always, I value your expertise with the machines. I am naturally inquisitive and usually do a "tear down" on machinery we own. The purpose is not to see what they are made of but

to understand how they work. It is much cheaper and easier to fix your own equipment. My wife almost passed out when she seen parts of our $100,000 CNC Router laying on various workbenches just a short while after we bought it. We have never had a service call on any of our equipment in almost 35 years owning our manufacturing business.

If anyone has a handle on where to get a smooth feed dog for the Consew 206RB-5, please let me know. Even if it needs some TLC to fit and work properly.

Again, thank you very much for your information, I will probably be asking more questions.

BTW: The machine was delivered just before lunch today.

ferg

PS: I understand that grinding/filing the teeth off the dogs could change the timing. That said: You don't need to file/grind them off, you just fill the voids between the "teeth". Experiment with how much filling would need to be done so you could still enable the dogs to do their thing. Seems to me this same procedure could be done to the walking feet/presser feet in lieu of ginding their teeth also.

Any comments?

ferg

Edited October 25, 2010 by 50 years leather

[Wizcrafts]

Wiz,

<snip>

PS: I understand that grinding/filing the teeth off the dogs could change the timing. That said: You don't need to file/grind them off, you just fill the voids between the "teeth". Experiment with how much filling would need to be done so you could still enable the dogs to do their thing. Seems to me this same procedure could be done to the walking feet/presser feet in lieu of ginding their teeth also.

Any comments?

ferg

I didn't know you were into milling or I would have suggested filling in the teeth with steel, or bronze rod, or maybe cutting one out of stainless stock. A decent mill should be able to turn out a smooth-top feed dog and bore the center hole/slot in under an hour. Just use the original dog as a milling pattern.

[Ferg]

I didn't know you were into milling or I would have suggested filling in the teeth with steel, or bronze rod, or maybe cutting one out of stainless stock. A decent mill should be able to turn out a smooth-top feed dog and bore the center hole/slot in under an hour. Just use the original dog as a milling pattern.

Wiz,

Did you know the Consew 206RB-5 comes with smooth presser/walking feet? The video I watched from someone, not you, the feet were definitely grooved.

I got my machine to the ready this evening. Wife left me play a little. I had the machine shipped via UPS (Free) so the table was not assembled.

I am going to try different sized thread to see what happens. Threaded according to specs, worked perfectly. I have bought a so-called 2" pulley for the motor, it is actually 2 5/8" outside and 1 1/2" inside measurements.

I did not get a speed reducer but may very well need one. Wanted to play with the tension on the belt also.

Thanks again,

ferg

[Wizcrafts]

Wiz,

Did you know the Consew 206RB-5 comes with smooth presser/walking feet? The video I watched from someone, not you, the feet were definitely grooved.

ferg

Yes, I knew that. Almost every triple feed walking foot machine ships with smooth bottom pressor feet. Feet with teeth are usually an add-on option.

Almost all triple feed walking foot machines, except for the Adler 20(4|5)-374, have teeth on the feed dog.

Jumping foot harness stitchers do not have a feed dog at all. Similarly, needle and awl machines do not have feed dogs. These machines are either needle or awl feed, while the pressor foot is lifted.

All patcher machines have teeth on the bottom of the pressor foot. That is their sole means of transporting the leather.

Portable walking foot machines, meant for sewing boat vinyl, usually have pressor feet with teeth, for more grip on slippery vinyl and plastic windscreens.

My friend at Doug Monroe, M&M Leather, in Flint, Michigan, has a Rex walking foot machine for sale, with teeth on the pressor feet. It has tremendous grip on anything you place under the feet. God help you if that includes a finger!

[Ferg]

Just an up-date for October 26, 2010

My Consew 206RB-5 was made in Japan, was packaged in a "Phaf" (spelling) carton, may not mean too much but all the packing fit the machine.

I am definitely going to need a Speed Reducer. Put the smaller pulley on the motor with only a little difference. With speed dial about 50% it had no problem with 8 oz leather

and had no marks from the presser feet. Used #68 thread with a #14, #16, and a #22 needle, #46 thread in the bobbin. I have # 92,#138, and #207 thread coming tomorrow.

Another interesting note: The instruction manuel says their is a needle plate available for this machine as an added accessory, that enables the use of two finish sided leather

without making marks. Obviously has no serrations.

Would the fact the machine was made in Japan have anything to do with the different needle plate being available?

I'm never going to get any sleep with this machine in my shop.

ferg