You Have $1,000 To Spend On A Sewing Machine...

[Sixer]

I'll make this short... but I've been doing as much research as I can on sewing machines for leather. I still feel lost with all of it.

I need something that can handle 2 layers of 8/9 oz leather. I'd like to have the option to use the thickest thread possible. Since I'm working with mostly holsters, I need something that will not mark up my leather.

I don't mind buying used.

I have no preference between a walking foot or cylinder arm machine.

My budget is $1000, but less is always better.

I've been keeping an eye out for a used Tippmann Boss, but I'm not sure....

Considering my bugdet and needs, what would you reccommend???

Thanks for the help

[Art]

153W101

153W103

Pfaff 545

Enough left for gear reduction servo motor.

Art

I'll make this short... but I've been doing as much research as I can on sewing machines for leather. I still feel lost with all of it.

I need something that can handle 2 layers of 8/9 oz leather. I'd like to have the option to use the thickest thread possible. Since I'm working with mostly holsters, I need something that will not mark up my leather.

I don't mind buying used.

I have no preference between a walking foot or cylinder arm machine.

My budget is $1000, but less is always better.

I've been keeping an eye out for a used Tippmann Boss, but I'm not sure....

Considering my bugdet and needs, what would you reccommend???

Thanks for the help

[Wizcrafts]

I'll make this short... but I've been doing as much research as I can on sewing machines for leather. I still feel lost with all of it.

I need something that can handle 2 layers of 8/9 oz leather. I'd like to have the option to use the thickest thread possible. Since I'm working with mostly holsters, I need something that will not mark up my leather.

...

My budget is $1000, but less is always better.

Considering my bugdet and needs, what would you reccommend???

Thanks for the help

If you had left out the part about using the thickest thread possible, my recommendation would have been for a typical walking foot machine, like a Consew 206RB-5 and equivalent, or a Cowboy 227R cylinder arm walking foot machine. But, if I interpret your thread statement correctly, you want to sew holsters with at least #207 thread, if not #277, or 346. That leaves out both of the aforementioned types of machine.

If you want to sew with truly heavy thread, like #277, and up, you will need to get a Juki 441 or Adler 205, or a clone of those machines. The least expensive 441 clones are 9" cylinder arm walking foot machines sold as Cobra, Cowboy, Artisan, Techsew and Ferdco brands, among others. All are capable of sewing with at least #415 thread, at thicknesses up to 7/8 inch. All have smooth feed dogs and harness pressor feet. You'll be looking at the vicinity of $1800, plus shipping for most 9 inch arm harness stitchers.

The Adler 205 is sold by Weaver, to dealers and persons with a State sales tax number only. They sell for about $5500, plus shipping. Cowboy makes Adler 205 clones for a couple thousand less than the Adler price.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Wizcrafts

[simran]

I'll make this short... but I've been doing as much research as I can on sewing machines for leather. I still feel lost with all of it.

I need something that can handle 2 layers of 8/9 oz leather. I'd like to have the option to use the thickest thread possible. Since I'm working with mostly holsters, I need something that will not mark up my leather.

I don't mind buying used.

I have no preference between a walking foot or cylinder arm machine.

My budget is $1000, but less is always better.

I've been keeping an eye out for a used Tippmann Boss, but I'm not sure....

Considering my bugdet and needs, what would you recommend???

Thanks for the help

I've seen a Chinese knock-off of the 441 on ebay for around $600 new. Now granted I know nothing of these machines;

there may be other s here that do know. Maybe they will chime in. I'm not sure they are worth the $600!

Also, I've seen Servo motors on ebay for around $150. Maybe one can be bought for less elsewhere; not sure.

If you are a little creative and handy with your hands you could built a table out of plywood & 2X4's and join the two together and get in under your mark.

The generic GA5-1 I've seen on Ebay looks just like the one Techsew sells but looks can be deceiving especially in the sewing machine dept.

It would be nice if someone that has bought one of these Chinese knock-off's would chime in with a review of these machines.

If you could save up another $5xx and take a good hard look @ the Techsew You may be happier because of the service you'd get.

Especially if you are a beginner.

Older machines can be bought for a song if you can wait . . . .& . . . .wait . . . .& well you know the drill. But then you are taking a chance

on getting a machine that needs tinkering.

I'm the kind that can wait til the dog goes to sleep to steal his bone. If he doesn't go to sleep I wait . . .until he either eats the bone or goes to sleep.

Not everyone is up to that.

I do know that "he that gets in a hurry pays to much."

Things to consider.

Edited May 21, 2011 by simran

[Sixer]

Thanks for the replies!

As far as thread thickness goes... I don't really need something to handle the THICKEST thread available. It just needs to be able to handle thread sufficient for holsters.

I'm in no rush, but I do plan to purchase a machine sometime in the near future.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I should be on the lookout for a older used machine or focus more on a new machine.

Money is tight as always, but I would rather save up a few more $$$ than buy a machine that will just get me by for now.

I appreciate ALL the excellent info... keep it coming

ETA - Wizcrafts any idea where I could find more info on the Cowboy 227R? I Googled it and literally found nothing.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Sixer

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

The problem with a lot of ebay product is lack of support. Some sellers just sell boxes and know nothing about the contents. This isn't true for all so do some homework on the seller and if sewing machines is not their main business then be very wary.

[Art]

There aren't very many machines today (especially 441 class machines) that aren't Chinese clones. Just keep in mind that the dealers provide support and modifications to make the clones sew leather better. You could buy the mods and install them yourself if you knew where to get the parts and what to do. If you have to save up to get the right machine, just do it, you will probably never realize the problems you are saving yourself from. When you can call someone like Steve and get a response darned near 24/7 and get your problem resolved, there is just no way to put a price on that. Also, the GA 5 machines are made by more than a few factories over there, you really have to depend on your dealer to select the right one.

Art

Thanks for the replies!

As far as thread thickness goes... I don't really need something to handle the THICKEST thread available. It just needs to be able to handle thread sufficient for holsters.

I'm in no rush, but I do plan to purchase a machine sometime in the near future.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I should be on the lookout for a older used machine or focus more on a new machine.

Money is tight as always, but I would rather save up a few more $$$ than buy a machine that will just get me by for now.

I appreciate ALL the excellent info... keep it coming

ETA - Wizcrafts any idea where I could find more info on the Cowboy 227R? I Googled it and literally found nothing.

[chazdillon]

I'll make this short... but I've been doing as much research as I can on sewing machines for leather. I still feel lost with all of it.

I need something that can handle 2 layers of 8/9 oz leather. I'd like to have the option to use the thickest thread possible. Since I'm working with mostly holsters, I need something that will not mark up my leather.

I don't mind buying used.

I have no preference between a walking foot or cylinder arm machine.

My budget is $1000, but less is always better.

I've been keeping an eye out for a used Tippmann Boss, but I'm not sure....

Considering my bugdet and needs, what would you reccommend???

Thanks for the help

I've been in the same boat as you. Call me tomorrow and I'll tell ya everything I know and know a few people selling machines if your interested. I will probably post a few of them up here in a couple weeks but if u want first dibs I can get them at a great price

407-406-3477

[rickmoo]

I've been in the same boat as you. Call me tomorrow and I'll tell ya everything I know and know a few people selling machines if your interested. I will probably post a few of them up here in a couple weeks but if u want first dibs I can get them at a great price

407-406-3477

check out zeussmachines.com

[Wizcrafts]

I started making leather holsters as a sideline, in about 1985. Over a period of the next 15 years I hand produced and machine sewed several hundred, of all types. My first efforts were done on a straight stitch, cast iron, industrial Singer 96k40, which was woefully inadequate (actually, useless). So, I bought what I was told was a walking foot machine, only to discover that it was a spring foot machine, only good with #69 thread and again, useless for holsters, or anything much over 1/4" thick. I kept buying stronger looking machines, until I eventually found and bought one that was really capable of sewing with really thick thread, into 3/4" of leather. It stands about 2 feet tall, is 2 feet long and 1 foot deep, and weighs about 350 pounds. It is built entirely of American iron and steel. It uses a needle and awl to do the heavy sewing it is built for. The bobbins are 2.5" in diameter and almost 3/4" deep. They hold enough #346 thread to sew holsters for a small army. The needles have barbs near the top and some are a thick as the nails used to assemble a porch.

This machine, which is designed to sew heavy leather and not break down, is a Union Lockstitch Machine and is going to be 101 years old on July 10, this year. It sews perfectly, with up to #554 bonded nylon, or up to 10 cord waxed linen thread.

There are a class of modern machines that will do the same type of work as my old Union Lockstitch. They are known as 441 clones and are copies of the famous Juki 441. These machines are all built in China. The quality is improving as the dealers send feedback to the factories that build them. For 2.5k you can buy a brand new 441 clone, with a 16.5" long cylinder arm. That machine will sew over 3/4" of leather, with up to #415 bonded thread. There are table top attachments, and various feet and throat plates that let you sew holsters, harness, bridles, collars, leads and reins, cases, beaded lines, saddles, saddle bags, et, al.

Anybody wanting to sew holsters needs to consider the purpose of the holster, when determining the size of thread and thickness of leather to be used. If the rig is for casual use, by a person who may never draw his or her gun in combat, then 2 layers of 6-7 ounce leather, sewn with 22 pound strength, #138 thread may do just fine. But, if the holster is going to be sold to an undercover cop, or duty officer, who might conceivably get into a life or death struggle for his weapon, you'll want the leather to be as heavy as can be molded to the gun and sewn with #277 or #346 bonded nylon thread. If it is a holster with a double leather side filler welt, you'll want to sew it with either #346 or #415 thread.

If you actually believe that a Pfaff 130, or Singer 15, 31, 66, 99, 127 or a 29-anything, or any straight stitch industrial sewing machine is going to sew such a holster, with such thread, you are living in La-La Land.

[simran]

check out zeussmachines.com

With the exception of the Sailrite all I seen were house machines on this site with pics. artistically take to make them look larger than life.

You might be able to sew a zipper in a motorcycle jacket with one of those but you'll probably be cussing before you're through.

I've got a Thompson Mini-walker; which is the same act as a Sailrite basically. With a few differences. It will sew zippers in leather jackets all day long.

However, I bent a lever on it trying to sew through 4 layers of kid skin & 2 layers of thick canvas.

The problem with these light machines is that they will sew just enough to think your doing something; then you come to the end of a zipper

where things are doubled or worse or need to fold over a pocket lid & you end up with multiple layers of material. That's when the fun starts.

Things can turn south in a hurry.

Notice I never even mentioned holsters. They're a whole nuther ball game as wiz so eloquently pointed out.

[Art]

Sim is correct in his assessment. The machines on

http://zeusmachines.com/

are old household machines that are quite rugged, but are not really up to the task of leather sewing on vegtan. The problem with a mid range or upholstery machine is that quite often we run it at the top range of it's capabilities. Take for instance, 2 layers of 9oz, that's 18oz plus glue of vegtan; at the bleeding max for that machine, and I wouldn't want to make even a good one do it all day every day. Then you oops, need a welt in there, well you can get it under the foot, so now you can do that, till one day it won't do it or the stitch line will look like crap, or something, because we are always pushing the envelope. So, instead save up and buy a 441, one from a dealer that advertises here and can provide the service you need. That machine will have the headroom, setup, accessories, and service you need.

Art

With the exception of the Sailrite all I seen were house machines on this site with pics. artistically take to make them look larger than life.

You might be able to sew a zipper in a motorcycle jacket with one of those but you'll probably be cussing before you're through.

I've got a Thompson Mini-walker; which is the same act as a Sailrite basically. With a few differences. It will sew zippers in leather jackets all day long.

However, I bent a lever on it trying to sew through 4 layers of kid skin & 2 layers of thick canvas.

The problem with these light machines is that they will sew just enough to think your doing something; then you come to the end of a zipper

where things are doubled or worse or need to fold over a pocket lid & you end up with multiple layers of material. That's when the fun starts.

Things can turn south in a hurry.

Notice I never even mentioned holsters. They're a whole nuther ball game as wiz so eloquently pointed out.

[Wizcrafts]

I have updated my topic about the type of sewing machine needed to sew leather to include information pertinent to this thread. It should prove beneficial to new leather sewers who may be tempted to buy a beautifully restored home sewing machine, such as those offered by the company mentioned by a previous poster. If you want such a machine as a collectors item, great! If you want to get one for your wife to sew skirts and shirts, great! But, if you think for one minute that these old iron machines can sew veg-tan holsters, with any kind or serious thread, please read my topic, linked to above.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Wizcrafts