Vacuum bag for forming holsters

[Denster]

Just curious if anyone other than me used a vacuum bag and pump for molding holsters. Wondered what your experience good, bad, or indifferent was. I've had pretty good luck with it myself after working out a few bugs.

[MBOGO]

I was just thinking about this the other day. Also thought that it could be used to seal the sidearm to make a mold, to cast a replica.

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

Could we see some pics of your results? I have heard of this before, but I've never seen the results. Thanks!

Edited March 27, 2009 by BOOMSTICKHolsters

[MBOGO]

Yes please, and bugs and pointers...

[Denster]

Hadn't thought of that. Might work with one of the seal a meal devices. What I was refering to though was one of the vacuum presses as used to glue veneer to a base wood. Basically mine is a 2ftX2ft heavy vynal bag.The bag has a closing device on one end and a air evacuation connection in the center. I use a 2.5cfm vacuum pump and can pull 30mhg. This size bag can do two holsters at once and really puuls the leather down.

Boomstick: I'll get some pictures in the morning of the results and of the outfit.

[woolfe]

I found this on using vacuum bags. It's reply # 14

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=5106.new

I may have to try it out.

[TwinOaks]

The only downside to using a 'seal a meal' type device is that if you're not careful, you end up with little grid marks all over the leather. The commercially available bags all have little micro channels for air passage in one side of the bag.

If you try this, be dang sure you have a dowel taped in place for a sight channel.

[rdb]

If you go up to the right hand corner of your window, and click on search "vacuum", you will find a page full of discussions similar to this, including pictures of some molding setups.

[Jordan]

I have used the foodsaver to mold a couple, it works except for the crosshatch marks from the bags, solved by using a ziploc inside the foodsaver bag.

[Denster]

Boomstick: Here are the pictures you requested. That is if I did this right. One is a Sig226R holster finished the detail is just as it came from the bag. The two pocket holsters just came out of the bag at a reduced vacuum as i did not want a real tight mold on a pocket holster. There are a couple of pics of the bag and pump.

rdb: I did the search you refered to before I tried this. No one had mentioned this type of outfit basically it related to seal-a meal and a few post on a vacuum table. Different animal same principal.

Jordan: I originally started heading this direction after a post I read of yours regarding your use of a foodsaver. I tried that and it works after a fashion. Big drawback is the bags with their air channels, lack of power, etc. Think of this as a foodsaver on steroids. Read that lots of steroids.

I'd really like to see some photos of holsters that have been hydraulically pressed as they came out of the press to compare the amount of detail brought up by each method. One plus I hve found with this method is that some fine details can be worked through the bag while it is still under vacuum whithout any chance of marring the wet leather.

If anyone is interested I'll post some tips and tricks with this method later. Ig I don't get to the shop and get some work done my btter half is going to KA.

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

Thanks for the pics, Denster. It looks like your method cleanly exposes the lines of the gun, so it would work for the way I do things. How long does it take to accomplish those results?

Here is a thread with a quick and dirty tutorial on using a press that shows one instance of what you're asking for. I'll try to get some more pictures for you if my camera will cooperate.

[rdb]

Now that I see your method, I like it. It's a little simpler than building a box. For pocket holsters, the amount of impression seems just right, so as not to give away the lines of the firearm inside the pocket, but shaped enough to hold it.

PS: I dig the fancy stitching.

[Shorts]

I always thought this was an interesting method. However, it seemed to be more trouble than the results. Especially if the holster will be boned for detail. I don't think I'd use this for molding leather, but possibly other projects with epoxy resin casting.

I certainly respect the work yall put into getting your machines together. Great designs that do the job!

[Denster]

Boomstick: Thanks for the link. That answers my question. Seems like the same amount of detail press or vacuum on the initial pulldown. Like I stated the vacuum has the advantage of being able to work some fine details through the bag at least on the face side. Working time from the time I put it in the bag till I take it out, mind you this is two guns at a time, is about four minutes add a couple of minutes if I decide to work in some additional detail.

As a matter of interest the total cost on this whole setup was about $175. While it is a somewhat significant time savings fom doing it by hand I found the most important thing was that there was virtually no chance of marring the work.

Shorts. I'm curious why would you not consider it for forming leather?

[K-Man]

Interesting concept, Denster, though not a new one. In my experience, I can get greater "initial" detail with my Weaver press with a 6-ton jack. I use the gum rubber to surround the gun/holster. I've had no marring of the leather. I can press two pocket holsters at the same time, in approximately 3 minutes. I then only have to spend a couple of minutes on the boning enhancement of the gun in the holster.

Edited March 27, 2009 by K-Man

[Shorts]

Shorts. I'm curious why would you not consider it for forming leather?

I use a sponge press for initial forming when wet. Then my fingers for final touch-ups just before boning after the leather moisture is right.

[Denster]

K-Man: Didn't say it was a new idea just was interested if anyone else was using it and any tips and tricks they may have learned. I wouldn't expect you to have any marring with the press. What I meant by marring was as opposed to doing the initial forming by hand. The initial detail you are refering too is what I was interested in improving. Just a couple of things I have come up with is having a platnen in the bag to help increase drawdown, warming the bag to increase flexibility, Tried using foam pads over the gun/holster OK results not as good as just the bag. No real advantage to it over the press if you allready have one.

[K-Man]

In my experience, foam pads are far too weak to provide any substantive results. Would a higher cfm be advantageous in this application?

I agree that there's no real advantage with the vacuum bag process over the press set up. It's something to consider if initially starting out perhaps. It looks, based on the pictures you've posted, that it would work best for small objects, such as pocket holsters. In the picture of the OWB holster that you show, it appears that the definition is even less than in comparision to the pocket holsters, or am I seeing that wrong?

[Denster]

K-Man. That is probably due to my poor photographic skills I should have cross lighted that to show the detail. The pocket holsters were formed at 18mgh while the unit is capable of 30mgh+ as it maxes out the guage. The pump I have is 2.5cfm one with more oomph might make a difference. What it is capable of for example with a Taurus PT1911 it will bring up the forward slide serrations take down pin end and slide/frame delineation. I'll be forming 1911s and High Powers in the next couple of days and will get some pics.

I've considered making some lighter guage vynal bags for greater flexibility. Actually the foam pads didn't do a bad job however this was dense close cell foam. Can't expect them to be as good as gum rubber under 6tons though. In any case just using the bag provides better results and the advantage of being able to work details through it. I'll keep playing with it and see what I come up with. In it's current state it provides a good close fit without further work and the lines are exposed if I want to do a close detail job. I find that tedious. I'm not in yours and Boomsticks class when it comes to that.

[Bronson]

Denster,

Are you using any bleeder cloth around the holsters and under the air valve? When we do fiberglass bag forming at work this is an essential element to get a good suction especially around shaped objects.

Bronson

[Denster]

Bronsn: I use a bleeder but not the cloth you are refering to. The outlet valve has cutouts and I also made a platnen out of 1/2" plywood that has cutout going completely around, this goes under the outlet valve together they keep the bag from sealing itself at the outlet before the bag has pulled down around the holster.

[rhall]

Denster I had a sheet of .25" SS in the garage that measured 35"X42" So I just drilled,Taped and installed a fitting to hook up that Vaquam pump that I also was not using.I will put some 42" steel legs under it to make a Vaq. table.A good start to trying this method of Casing for Holsters.Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread!

[Denster]

rhall: Are you making a vacuum table? I'm not sure if I read your post correctly. Anyway what I'm using is a vacuum bag does both sides of the holster at once. If you allready have the pump the bag closure and inlet valve are only $45. Might be an easier way to go.

[LarryDonaldson]

I was thinking of setting up this exact method. Where did you purchase your bag and other components? Has any one tried the bag method with a shop vacuum as the vacuum source?

I have a Sheldon lathe I'm trying to sell to finance my purchase of a Toro 3000. Have about a dozen holsters I want to make for my own use. Who knows if I get good at it I may offer them for sale and develop an extra retirement income.

[LarryDonaldson]

Denster

I'm assuming based on your pictures that you sew the holster before the vacuum process. Do you wet the leather also?