THank you for the great advice....I'm hearing my friend now who said don't buy a saddle you can't try on your horse first...well no use in explaining all the reasons I did it anyway but I believe you are correct in 1)me expecting the saddle to stay farther forward than it is made to sit, maybe I was expecting it to sit like my older Simco roper did. 2) my husband and I thought the cinch looked too far backward under her belly and so did everyone riding but it was already too close upon withers to move more forward so yes your prabably correct on all accoutns. I lunged her and let nature move things as it would then re-tightened and did this a couple of times before all of us headed out. I did ride this saddle 4 times at home for hours before taking it on this long ride but again I didn't have the kind of hills I encournted. This saddle fit has something to do with my mare not licking that cinch and OR pad where it was bottom line and I"ve got to figure it out...for sure. The buck I recieved cantering uphill was a crazy one. What I remember the most was feeling the pad, this thick pad I've always rode her in sliding backwards where it shouldnt have been I'm sure it goosed her.