Singermania

HI Doug, Hope you are happy with the 45K, I'm a collector and buy and sell a bit, and have 2 45K25 and 4 45K58 in stock at the moment. I think they are a great machine. I've just put a query on leatherworker about a logo, I'm trying to find out what manufacturer had the two lions and crown as there symbol. I've been told its Werheim, however I thought they were the dwarf and hammer and star of David. I think its German. Regards Steve

HI, the 31 and 45 are worlds apart in terms of weight, what attachments are you thinking of using?? People using the 45K25 usually use a plain presser foot or a roller foot. These can be hard to find, but can be found eventually if you seek them out. You should if you really wanted to be able to take the bar up, but I wouldn't be inclined to cut anything off it. Regards Steve

HI, I'm always looking for new and interesting machines and love to talk about them..... bought a couple of Pearson #6s and a Pearson #2 recently. Also just recieved my Singer 47KSV10..... the head is 6 feet long and there is 4 feet free at the needle, its a zig zig one off macihne for sailmaking. Have also just got in a Singer Model 2 and a couple of model 3-1... all look to be complete, though only one treadle table.... . However I am writing now about a couple of machines I have on the way from Germany, they have large logos on the tables of a couple of lions and a crown, these tables all seem to be on boot/shoe machines.... sometimes on the handwheel they say "patent elastique" or "patent Calibre" Is the the logo for just the table or is it a manufacturer of machines too? Any help would be very much appreciated. I've had a few suggestions for the manufacturer, but I wont say what they are now, just look forward to hearing your ideas. Best Regards Steve

HI, nice to hear you have a lovely 7-31, they are an excellent machine! They can be a bit fussy with their thread tensions, so make sure the shuttle is clean and well oiled, that the tension on the top is steady and firmish. Also worth checking that the hook is close enough to the needle when it rotates. With regards to oils, I think that the advise you have recieved is excellent, however I'm not concerned about marking materials so I use a good grade of thin motor oil, sounds strange but I find it does a good job. Regards Steve name='richspe' timestamp='1319581769' post='218284'] I just purchased a Singer 7-31 and will have it running soon – the table has not arrived yet. This is a real beast of a machine. What do you use for oil? I'm thinking that regular sewing machine oil may be too light and something heavier should be used. I have downloaded the manual and will have it running soon. A leather worker purchased it from the military but he used it very little. It appears to have had little use. It seems to sew pretty well and hasn't been sitting in a barn, just a little shop dirt from lack of use. It needs adjusting to do long stitches, without making thread nests on the bottom. Any information about oil you use or general problems and adjustments would be greatly appreciated. I too like to repair the old Singer machines. Best regards from Nebraska USA HI, the 144 is a great machine and improved over the 132K6, ordinarily I would be interested in purchase, however at the mo have a number in stock. Sorry about that, hope you find it a good home. Am still searching for Singer 97-10 and any Pearson machine. Best Regards Steve

HI Kuyriakos, I have found a 47KSV10, bigger than the 47k1 and am happy with that, however I can give you a couple hundred for each machine if you want to move them on. Regards Steve

HI Dane, That's a great find, you dont see that many with the top clutch system about. The price range you mentioned is about right... I buy and sell these machines in Australia and get them from the States and UK. I believe their value over there to be between $1000 and about $2500. I sold a 7-31 this week here in Oz for $1950. They should be worth more in my view, however cheap imports that have reverse have put them in the shade somewhat. Good luck with your machine, you can still get bobbins, shuttles, needle plates, needles etc. Regards Steve

HI Bob, thanks for the reply, I didn't realise from the piccie that it was a bootmakers machine, but I can see it from your picture, even the multidirectional sewing. You must have quite a collection. Have you ever put all the pictures online?? Regards Steve

Very funny Art, one day I'll find a machine you guys don't know. I have to be careful as the more beaten up the machine the more I want it.!!!

HI all, I'm on the hunt for information about an old machine again. Does anybody know what machine this is???

HI guys, I'm going to stick with what I have said, the price is less the quality is less. Does it matter??? I don't really know, the machines will still probably out live us. I think it was Al that said the design was important, but the quality of the metal no so much.... but I can't agree, would you apply that rule to your leatherwork? I doubt it, you'd go for the best leather. Lets put it this way, when I was growing up my dad had a builders wheel barrow that was in and out of all sorts of weather and carted concrete, bricks, fire wood etc, I remember that wheel barrow being there right thru my living at home time, about 20 years, by the end it was beaten up and patched but was still going... my dad died before that wheelbarrow.. Last year I bought a Chinese wheelbarrow, I treated in like a princess, its already rusted out and sitting on my rubbish heap, it rusted so quickly and so comprehensively that there just wasn't anything left to patch. So I think there is some value in the metal. I sold a highlead last week, it came to me with a big Adler that I was chasing. The person that bought it had a Sunstar, exactly the same machine, he used it to sew caravan awnings and was very pleased with it... and so grabbed my Highlead when he saw it advertised. Did I like it?? no not really, it had too many little chinzy looking parts for me. But the man loved it and so thats top recommendation. As I've said, the Chinese and Indian machines are cheaper, we are not making them anymore and so what the heck, they probably outlast us anyway. I saw on another forum a saddler saying he had two Highleads and that they were wonderful, so its hard to argue with that. Al, I'd say buy the Highlead, look after it and let us know how you get on. Its ok for me to be nostalgic about the old Singers, Busmcs and Adlers, but you have a job to do so get the modern machine in your budget. Alternatively, come over to Australia for a holiday and take back one of Jim's Cowboy machines.

Hi Bob, the Smithsonian has some nice pictures of the K3 sewing rope together, though I've forgotten how to access it these days. Do you do any Singer, Alder or Pfaff spares.? Regards Steve

Thanks Bob, just when you think you've seen them all along comes another one. I tried all Singer avenues to get info on my 5-12 but they only come back with what I can find on their websites, thats that it was made 7th of July 1879. I guess its a matter now of waiting until an old timer comes along that knows it. Regards Steve

thanks Bob, but isn't the K5 a rope binding machine or am I thinking of the K3.. Its interesting these machines were built in small numbers, when other machines were being made in hundreds they were made in tens. I dont have the 47k yet, but the badge on the side (photo of) says 47KSV10. I used to have a 47K1 some while back and sold it to another collector and have been trying to replace it ever since. I've attached a photo of an old 47K1 for anyone interested, also another interesting photo came across recently of a shoe machine Regards Steve

Hi Bob, thanks for the picture, thats the first time I've seen that machine. I didn't know anybody would want to stitch threw the side of a tyre. In kind I've attached an interesting machine for you.. See if you can tell me what it is, because I dont have a clue. Regards Steve

I agree with you Darren, I'd start with the No1 and stop at the Singer 97-10, if there was money left over a nice Adler 205 would be nice.

Hi Trox, I've jumped the gun a bit as the machine hasn't arrrived as yet, I'm hotly awaiting its appearance. I understand it does sew. Its basically (by the look of it and by the numbers) a 47k1 cut in half with a big beam shoved in to extend it and a puller attached to help things along. I believe it would do the same job as the 47k1, that's sailmaking. Your 144W305 is a good machine, I believe they have a reverse on the treadle, thats a plus out here. The problem is I can't import just one machine at a time as the port handling, customs clearance and delivery kill the deal. If we could bypass those costs I 'd grab it in a heartbeat.

buuuuuutt............... if I was setting up my upholstery business again and I had the choise of a $5800 consew K6 clone or an Asian manufactured clone at say $2500 and that came with reverse, cheap spares and great design (its a copy of a great design after all) then I'd probably buy the cheaper machine.... Lets face it I could buy two and set the other one up witha different colour or weight thread, or a welt foot etc. The US and Britain have fantastic heritage in sewing machines, the mighty Singer company spanned pretty much every country in the world, throw a dart at the map of the world and Singer was most likely there. I'm a bit old fashioned, a bit nationalistic and would like to see that heritage continued and even rebuilt. Though I sold my own old upholstery machine recently, it was Japanese, I really didn't give a thought to where it came from whilst I was using it. Getting back to the original thread, if I was having a new machine shipped to me, I wouldn't be concerned about setting it up or adjusting it, because I can do that. Would I be worried about the quality??? if I paid half the price of a Consew or Juki (probably made in China anyway) then ...no .... I wouldn't be worried about the quality either. My advice would be to buy whatever machine appeals to you, whatever machine is in your price range, if you don't have skills buy what can be easily maintained, repaired and parts sourced ie a good dealer to back you up. If that's a Highlead, then excellent. If you want to be a bit of a collector like me and like to go out to your building and admire your antiques and tinker with them, then buy an old Singer BUSMC or Adler. Whatever machine you have, be proud of it, its taken over a hundred years to produce it, keep it clean, oil it everyday. I've attached some pictures of my latest aquisition, its a Singer 47KSV10 extra long arm walking foot zig zag sail maker's machine with puller. I fell in love with it, these things make a great racket when they run and were really designed for the heavy old canvas days of sailing. I've never seen another, the show off in me thinks it may be the only one in existance, pls let me know if you have any knowledge of them.

Well nothing is set in stone, things change.... Japan got into manufacturing, the the first wave was cheap and poor, hence the saying "jap crap" , they learned from that and came back with quality. The Chinese or whoever can do the same. My point is that if a machine comes to you as quality, it is quality, if it comes rough then it is rough ... right to the core.... sure you can tinker but the base materials you can't change. Austrailia's economy is pretty much unaffected by the WFC however Europe and the US have taken a punch, if I lived in one of those places I'd be thinking of buying home made. I know the original question was about Chinese, however there are other countries that manufacture.... Japan, India, Pakistan and Russia. My rule of thumb is that if it comes to you rough then it is rough.

HI Guys, I'm hearing a lot of talk about the end result being down to the dealer?? you really think so? Do you really think you are going to make a crocodile handbag out of a pig's ear? Look if the things arrive poorly adjusted, with paint missing, rough castings, moving parts that don't move then that lack of quality is going to carry on thru to the materials. The metal will be poor, the casting weak, crappy bearings. Sure a dab hand might get it going nicely, but will it be around to challenge the big old Singers and Adlers in 50 years time? But if you want a Chinese machine, then go and buy one, stop talking about it, do it. Best Regards Steve

Hi Bob, thanks for replying, I'm very jealous of your collection. I take it that they are the no 1 and 2 on the forground. I would love to have a full set right up to the big 8 class, so far only a 3, 5 and about eight 7 class. If you ever want to sell any of your treasures or know of any more then pls let me know. Best Regards Steve. Bob

HI Greg, You are right I was off thread, I was responding to points being made later in the topic. I only ocassionally sell a new machine, sometimes they work straight out of the box sometimes they don't. But that's to do with many factors, like the material and thread that it was originally set up for or not set up at all. Other things happen in transit, I have machines running perfectly here, leave a large piece of cloth stitched half way thru under the foot and it gets to the other end and wont sew... tensions move, things get out of whack...not every time, but just sometimes.... I can't say that one brand or one country of origin is going to do that more or not. So sorry to confuse the issue or cast clouds on anyones way of earning a living. My own firm belief is that there are varying qualities of Chinese machines in the same model. Whether they run straight out of the box I can't say. What I can tell you is that I import a good number of used, old, big Singers machines from the UK and USA.... like the 97-10, 144W305, 132K6, 45K, 7 class, 47k1 etc, very often they have material under the foot and thread hanging off them (so the person, me, at the other end knows how to thread it) and I find almost without exception that these machines sew straight out of the crate. Does anyone know anything about Singer 3 class machines.?? Hope that helps, sorry again for getting off topic. Best Regards Steve

HI, thanks for your help, I'll give the email address a run. Regards Steve

HI Darren, thanks for your reply, the pictures are deceiving, its shorter than a 7 class but actually heavier, so rather than around 65kg its more like 75kg. I can lift and carry a 7-31, but this 5-12 is a real back breaker. I'm still hoping someone will read my post and have some info, even just a comment is very welcome. Regards Steve

Hi Everyone, I'm trying to track down some information on the Singer 5 class machines. So far can only find two drawings, one is a 5-3 the other is a 5-7, neither look exactly the same as my 5-12. I bought this machine as a 5-12 but of course it could be somethinge else. It is certainly a Singer, looks like the 5, 6, 7 and 8 class machines and uses the same shuttle as the big 7 class machines. The problem is that the Singer info I have only list up to 5-9. The Smithsonian pictures don't have any of the heavy walking foot and feed roller gear as mine does on the front. Also the Singer catalogue says that 5 class machines have a bed of 32 1/2" whilst mine is 21 3/4". Did the later versions have a shorter bed? There must be someone in the world that has used these machines and knows something about them they can share. Does anyone have any photos or literature. ?? I found a Singer phone number that says if you ring it they can give you the model number from the serial number, but it wont work here in Australia.... 1800 474 6437 The Serial number is 2959803 and under that is 89903. The first number was allocated in 1879. I am trying to put together a collection of early industrial Singers from the number 1 to the 8, so far I have a 3, 5 and several 7s, let me know if anyone has the missing machines, dead or alive. Pls get back to me with anything you may have or know. regards Steve