ValleyEquine

I actually ended up ditching the harness totally. Really worked with my pup to improve loose leash walking, and use a Halti style headcollar in situations I know my pup is going to be too excited/stimulated to heel properly. Also, is there a way to edit my original post where the photos dissapeared?

Hello! I am in need of a product that I can't seem to find available in any sort of retail market. I have a bichon, a small breed of dog with poofy hair. She wears a rolled leather collar, as the rolled leather is better at preventing matting than a flat collar. I'd like to find her a harness made of mostly rolled leather, but they do not seem to exist in the shape I need. My pup currently wears a nylon harness in the this shape/style which I modified slightly by adding a plastic snap buckle on one of the shoulders for easier on/off. Having this shape of harness is important to me be because I feel that from an anatomical perspective all the straps are where they need to be...away from the throat, and lying on the shoulder in a way that does not interfere with movement. Here's what I have found with rolled leather.... This is a good option as far as being completely rolled, except at rivets and buckles. However, unless the dog is a 100% fantastic no pull loose leash walker this harness with put pressure on the throat just like a collar. Smaller breeds like my dog tend to be more sensitive to trachea damage so this is a problem. This next option is a very good looking harness. Again, it is basically all rolled (although the rolling does not appear to actually be very round.) My main problem with this harness design, frequently called a "step in" harness, is that while they do a good job staying away from the throat, they tend to lay in such a way that is going to inhibit natural shoulder movement, as well as potentially jam up in a dog's armpits, like so... The best option I've found as far as shape goes (not perfect but better) would be something like this... However only the shoulder straps are rolled, so this is not going to be super helpful with the matting issue. I've considered buying two or more larger rolled leather collars and attempting to rig something up myself. However, I'm just not totally comfortable about that. I'd like the shoulder straps to be two seperate pieces, like on the first nylon harness (although I'm willing to reconsider if necessary), and I'd also like a buckle on one shoulder strap (I realize this will create a short area of flat leather). I could give or take the buckle adjustments on the the bottom connecting strap that runs between the front legs from chest to belly, but I'd prefer this piece to be rolled if possible. I'd also like the top connecting leather piece to be a little longer, more similar to the first nylon harness, but I understand that this peice probably piece can't be rolled. Final requirements...I'd like black leather, but a good quality that won't stain my dogs fur. I also need stainless steel hardwear, because nickle plating leaves ugly gray marks on her white coat. Is something like this possible? If so, any ballparks on cost? FYI, at last measure my dog's girth was 14". I realize that rolling leather is a time consuming skill and that a well made leather harness should last a lifetime. But, I do not have a totally unlimited budget. Thanks for looking!

Hello! I was wondering if anyone knows of a source to purchase metal shanks for mechanical hackamores, where you can then attach a noseband and curb strap that you've made? I found one store, runningbear.com, that sells hackamore cheeks seperately from the noseband, however they cost $75. And there are some UK stores selling a particular model of cheek pieces, but I don't want to have to pay oversees shipping. Are there any "supply" type stores that cater to the tack/saddle maker who sell hackamore shanks for a lower price?

I'm new at this, so I need some help. I got a steal of a deal on ebay...nearly a whole side of leather, somewhere between 8 an 10 oz, in my best estimation, for <$15, including shipping. The leather came today and it is actually pretty nice. My leather is black, struck nearly all the way through...the very center is slightly grey. Not premium leather, has some surface wrinkles, and currently very dry and stiff, but it could be a heck of a lot worse! I would have asked the seller specifically what kind of leather I was getting, but I came accross it close to the end of the auction, and I figured whatever it was, it was worth $15. So, since I'm just starting out with leather work, I haven't had much of a chance to feel a lot of different types of leathers. I have samples from Wicket & Craig (and a few more samples on the way from Zach White and Sheridan leather). It isn't smooth and glossy and oily like Wicket & Craig's Harness or Bridle or Oiled latigo, but it isn't as soft and flexible as any other plain veg tan I have encountered (though W&C thick skirting samples aren't really all that flexible in 3X3 squares). Is this just to be expected, that every grade of veg tan from every tannery is going to feel a little different? The thing that makes me most hesitant to conclude this is veg tan leather is that it is not nearly as "thirsty" as other veg tan. The leather came shipped in a roll, and it was wanting to stay in that position. Since it is rather thick and stiff, I attempted to spray a light coat of warm water on the flesh side, figuring I would then have an easier time smoothing and flattening it. I did manage to get it weighed down flat with some heavy objects, but the water I sprayed on made minimal difference...it beaded up on the flesh side, and took a long time to absorb. As I said, it isn't an oily leather. But the flesh side is surprisingly smooth, so it is possibly it was gummed and ironed? Would that account for the difficulty with absorption on the flesh side? Or, is it possible it is chrome tanned, or something else? How would I tell?

I'm working on fixing up an old leather saddle. It was in need of several structural and cosmetic improvements. I've stripped previous finish/dye off the leather, and I'm soon ready to redo it. Since I haven't been able to strip the leather to 100% uniform color, my plan is to use Fiebings professional oil dye to get a nice, even color, and then to use Fiebings antique finish to bring out the floral tooling. Does anyone have recommendations (or examples!) for dye and antique colors that work nicely together? My leather is a darker than natural veg tan, but its a lighter than the Wicket and Craig brown skirting sample I have. Since I've read here about some people having lighter colored dye turn out super dark (recommendation seems to be to dilute dye), I thought maybe I'd start with "Saddle Tan" or "Light Brown", since I can always go darker. Or, would those two colors not go well onto already light brown leather? For the antique, I'm not sure what color to go with. Would I be better off waiting to pick until I have the leather dyed to see what it looks like?

Is there any place I can get harness shoulders, either single or double? I've felt samples of Wicket and Craig Work Harness and I like the feel of that, so a source for W&C work harness shoulder would be fantastic, or if anyone could recommend another harness that feels similar? I'm just starting out in leather work, and I'd prefer not to make a expensive investment in whole sides until I've done a few small projects and decided whether or not I like leather working and if I'm any good at it!

Thanks very much for the help, Ken. And, as a side note, I didn't mean to sound whiny or arrogant...I know that the start up costs are something every every leather crafter must go through, whether they be a half hearted hobbyist or a nationally known saddlemaker who relies upon sales for his full income. As far as tools, do you think there are some tools where having the high quality makes a huge difference, and then some where cheap tools do the job just as well, but maybe don't hold up quite as long? What are the most important tools to splurge on, and where can you pinch pennies, in your opinion? I bought this saddle pretty cheap, and I think once I have it fixed, I could probably resell it for my purchase price + repair costs. But if not, that's life. It's what I have on hand, and it needs repairs, so that's what I'll do. This saddle has given me plenty of opportunity see what NOT to do, and to come up with thoughts about what I would do (or will do) instead. Right now I'm in the process of fixing up the tree (removed everything attached to the tree). So once I've finished with the tree and am ready to start with the leather, I'll take you up on your offer.

Thanks for the recommendations. From reading member's review's on hear, the Al Stolhman books seem to be the most comprehensive of the books, with some of the books/videos you mentioned having major informational gaps, as well as potentially questionable (or poorly explained) methods. So, if I'm going to do it, I want to do it right. I could start with smaller projects to get down the basics of stamping, carving, finishing, sewing, etc. And having information is great, but when it comes to actually making a saddle, then I am going to need the tools and materials. The "Shop Talk" sale sounds like it would be a good place to look for affordable tools, though.

Thanks for the response. Since I posted my OP, I have continued to do research and learned the metal plate is a called a strainer. I have also continued "deconstruction"...I removed the skirts, and I've pried off the strainer. So no only the the fork and horn leather remain on the tree. Now that I have a pretty full view of the tree, I'm pretty confident I can repair the cantle crack and make the tree totally safe and sound. I also think that, without a heck of a lot of money (my estimate is >$100, if I use the wool saddle pad liner to reline my skirts), I can make this saddle 100% better than it was originally. After learning what I do know, this saddle has left me shaking my head at times. The seat, for example...apparently for strainers, the strainer plate is covered with leather, but that leather covered strainer serves as a base, and then leather layers are added on top of it and shaped, as you would a leather ground seat. But with this saddle, two layers of thick but not shaped leather are glued and stapled directly to the tree, the leather covered ground plate was nailed on, then the nasty compressed fiber padding, then the top layer of the leather, which served as the seat surface. The maker (or factory machinery) also went crazy with the staple gun. I'd love the Al Stolhman books. But, I'm sorta frustrated about costs. If I decide to get involved with saddlemaking, it can't be just for my own personal pleasure...money is just too tight for that. But even if I eventually planned on selling saddles and tack, "start up" costs are rough. To buy the books, plus the bare necessity tools I'd need, that's a good chunk of money. And then I'd have to buy the trees and leather and hardware to construct practice saddles. And then, maybe, I'd be able to sell some and start to recoup cost. But times are tough, and my finances are tight, so I'm very discouraged. I'd love to learn the craft of saddlemaking, and I'd love to construct something beautiful and useful, and I honestly think I'd be (or could become) very good at it (sorta up my alley as far as areas of talent....but don't ask me to catch a football- I'll break a bone attempting that!). But it's hard to find all the money necessary for the upfront costs, especially when there is no guarantee that I could begin recouping in a reasonably timely manner, if at all.

Would this be better in the "Saddle Construction" area?

Hi, I am new to leatherworking, so for a learning experience, I am deconstructing/reconstructing an older saddle in need of a few repairs and upgrades. I am currently in the deconstruction phase, and I have some questions about what I have come across, as well as regarding how I plan to proceed. I have stripped down the saddle to remove the seat and seat jockeys, cantle binding, cantle back, and back housing. When I removed the seat, I found a laying of nasty compressed brown fiber-ish stuff. Anyone know what this is? I'm assuming its purpose was for padding...so I'd like to replace it was something less smelly and scratchy. Maybe a 1/4" thick piece of a closed cell foam? Any suggestions? Beneath the brown stuff I found something that totally surprised me... a large metal plate. It begins about 2-3 inches behind the swells, allowing enough room to loop the stirrup leathers around the tree bars. But then the metal place starts, covering up the gullet opening that runs down the center of the tree, continues about halfway up the cantle, and is nailed to the tree along the sides of the bars (parallel to the gullet opening). What is the metal plate doing there? Is that a factory alternative to building up a leather ground seat? I can post pics if necessary, or if anyone is interested. Next, there is a small crack in the tree, about 1/2 of the way up the height of the cantle. Again, I can post pics if it would be helpful. But anyway, I can't make the cantle move, because that metal plate is holding everything in place. I didn't know it cracked till I removed all the leather. So, do I assume its safe? I'm thinking a crack in the cantle isn't quite as critical as a crack in the bars would be. Can I repair this somehow? Wood glue...wood putty....something else? Also, the tree isn't totally covered in rawhide....only rawhide in a few select locations. If I remove the two major skirt panels (and possibly the leather covering the cantle and horn, but not sure about that yet....not entirely positive I could get it back on properly!) could I brush down all the tree I have exposed with "Tuff Coat"? Does anyone know if that can be purchased by a layperson in a small quantity? Or is there something better I could use to seal up and protect the tree? Then, I want to remove the fleece on the back of the skirts, which is pretty ratty, and replace it with either wool felt or fake sheepskin (Don't think real sheepskin is in the budget for this learning-project.) Anyone have a source for the appropriate felt? I've looked around, but to find felt thick enough that it wouldn't fall apart (so, thicker than craft store felt), prices are very high. Could I buy I a 100% wool saddle pad liner (1/2" thick, 30"X"30, $13-24 depending on brand) cut it to the correct size/shape, then cement it and sew it on to my skirt leather? Finally, the most of the leather of my saddle is in decent shape. (I'm replacing a few pieces...the rigging straps and the seat surface.) But, on my skirts and jockeys...which happen to have a floral tool/carving...there are areas on the flat, uncarved leather wear there are very tiny surface crack, just a hair's depth...from the previous owner not keeping it properly conditioned. However, oiling now does not make the cracks dissapear. Can I somehow buff these surface cracks out? Or fill them in? Oh, one more question! I am also going to replace my stirrup leathers. However, I am not a huge fan of blevins buckles. Do I have any decent alternatives? Or if I chose an alternative, maybe I would grow to love the blevins buckles? Thanks very much!

That would be fantastic. I'd also love to take some tack and saddle making classes! Unfortunately, my health is not stable right now, so even if money were not an issue, I'm currently unable to leave home for extended period of time to travel alone to a destination several states away. So, for now, that won't work.

Thanks for the response. Paracord is a nylon parallel cord. Is polyester cord ever used? What about awls? Or the knobby sticks, usually wood, that some knots are braided on (don't know the proper name)? Also, reading through some of the other threads, I hear some of members here can be "sweet talked" into occasionally selling nice cut lace? Is this true? Although I may end up proving myself wrong, I don't think I'll ever be making enough braided leather items that an investment in the cutters and bevelers would be worthwhile.

Also, can someone recommend the diameter and stiffness of the cord I should start out with?

Hello! I am interested in learning to braid horse tack. I'm planning to start with paracord, then once I am getting the hang of things, I'll try leather lace. As Christmas gifts, I am requesting "Encyclopedia of Rawhide & Leather Braiding" by Bruce Grant as well as "How to Braid Quality Custom Tack" by Rebecca Albertson and Cybele Geidema, from U-Braid-It. Can someone please tell me the basic tools I will need, assuming I purchase pre-cut lace? I'm sure the books go over that, but I'm wanting to be able to get the tools along with the books, so I am ready to go! Thanks!

Thanks for response MarkB! Who is your choice of leather supplier? Would you be able to elaborate on the difference, or appropriate uses, for harness vs. bridle leather?

Nobody? Not even a partial answer? Or opinion?

I am in need of tack, specifically a bridle and breast collar, and I am not finding many "off the shelf" options within my budget that I am liking. So, my tentative plan is to have a local Amish harness maker/tack repairer to make something for me. However, I want to be well informed so that I can inspect the leathers he has on hand, and be able to order (or have him order) another type of leather if necessary. Main Questions~ ~For the bridle and breast collar, would "English" bridle leather or harness leather be preferable? What are the pros/cons of each? (The tack will not be stamped, tooled, or carved.) ~I'd love to hear opinions on bridle leather and harness leather sources, from most expensive top of the line to sub par economy choices. ~Where have you found the best latigo? What are the best "pre-cut" latigo laces/saddle strings you have found? Other Questions What are the pros/cons of lining tack? Is this just a "fancy" sort of thing, or is there a practical purpose? What leathers are used for lining? I know I have heard of calfskin lining and glove leather lining, though I haven't come across tanneries or retailers that sell any leathers with that specific "title". Veg Tan vs Chrome Tan? There seems to be a preference for veg tan, but I'm not sure why, as "Definition of Leather" post over in "All About Leather" states that chrome tanned is softer, better at holding shape, more water resistant, and more fade resistant than veg tan leather. Can anyone explain? Thanks! I know about Drum-Dyed leather. What are the other dying processes?

Thanks very much for the pm's! I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate this forum, but I found them.

Not sure if you're still looking, but check out Jeremiah Watt Horseshoe Brand Hardware.

Thanks for the responses thus far. LittleBelgian, I've begun reading through the link, and it is very interesting. Dirtclod, could you please explain this sentence in more detail? "For the conchos use a nail to put the bottom one on then do a bleed to hold the top one on. " What "bottom" and "top" are you referring to? And what is a bleed? Is that a blood knot in the saddle string, or something else. And, as for seat, that is the area where I feel least confident, so if I am not able to restitch without removing the seat, I will probably leave it alone, as you suggest.

Hello! I am new to the forum, though I have been browsing for a bit. I have an older saddle, purchased used, that it is need of some TLC. Tree is solid, leather is very good, aside from one questionable area on the cantle that I may have replaced. When I purchased the saddle, it had a hard, shiny coating, and the leather was fairly stiff. So I took it home, I cleaned it with Lexol Leather cleaner, and whatever coating was on the saddle came off. Now, the leather is much softer, but it is it a totally different color, and that color is not too even. So, I am wanting to fix it up. I got some estimates for "restoration", but all were out of my price range, especially considering I did not pay too much for the saddle to begin with. However, one person was kind enough to tell me that I am dealing with 60's Big Horn made in Chattanooga, TN. Although there is a number/letter stamp on the skirting behind the saddle, I could not find a makers stamp. But, the latigo keeper and stirrup keepers were missing, and I know saddle makers often put there mark at these locations. I am planning to deglaze the saddle (with Fiebing's deglazer or denatured alcohol) to start with a "clean palette". Then, I'll use the method described in another thread: Fiebing's Professional oil dye and an edge finisher, though I haven't yet decided upon a specific product, then oil, sealer, antiquer, sealer. (Making another post, probably tomorrow, in the "Dyes, Antiques, Stains, Glues, Waxes, Finishers, and Conditioners" with a few specific questions about this process.) In preparation for this, I got a bit overeager and removed the screw below the swells. The slotted conchos were rusty, so I removed those, as well as the leather rosettes and saddle strings. I found thick staples going through the rosettes, and I thought they were holding the rosettes onto the skirting. So, I pried them out. Turns out, they were attaching the skirting to the tree. Therefore, I have question number 1. How do I "reattach" this, once the dying process is finished. Can I use a screw back concho and screw it through the leather and into the tree? Or do I use some sort of nail/tack, and then cover it with new rosettes and conchos? If the latter, what sort of nail/tack do I use? Next, the saddle seat has very pretty stitching, but some of the stitching is coming undone. I'd like to refinish the seat, and then restitch it. I'm assuming doing it in this order will prevent the dye from staining the thread . Or, (question 2) will waxed thread repel the dye? Question 3: since the holes are already made, do I need to use a stitching awl, or can I just use a leather sewing needle? To be able to have easier access to the stitching on the seat, I'd like to be able to lift it off the saddle. However, it is attached by the leather covering the cheyenne roll on the cantle. Question 4: How is this leather attached? It seems to be glued...is this correct? Can I remove it? If so, how? Gently pry, or is there some sort of glue solvent? Once I'm to this point, my plan is to replace the rigging hardware. There is a local Amish tack repairer who can re-attach the new rings and dees to the leather strapping that holds it (sorry, don't know the proper term for that part) or replace that section of leather if necessary. Thanks for reading. I know I'm in a bit over my head, but I am doing my best to learn, and hoping with a bit of help from the very knowledgeable people here, I can come up with a satisfactory result. Attached are some photos for reference. The latigo and off billets have already been replaced, and a section of the stitching in the skirting has been repaired, but unfortunately in a different color of thread.