Slickhorn

I guess I'm lucky, I'm ambidextrous!!! So if/when I screw up and make the wrong hand, at least I might be able to use it myself! I have, however, given away some wrong handed holsters for guns I don't own, which isn't very many models, lol. I do have a tendency to cut out fronts or backs wrong side up from time to time though. And Bob's right, it's not just holsters. I have a couple sets of tapaderos that require VERY TINY FEET! It's all just more "practice" on various techniques though, right?

Not that I'm "experienced" or remotely "skilled," but I'll never forget a particular blunder about 7-8yrs ago. I was trying out a new 'minimalist' holster for one of my competition pistols, with a sort of stylized form. I had an idea for the a clip holster with lines that really fit the form of the holster. I had a local modern day blacksmith form a spring frame for it. The fading border dye trend was just coming on strong back then, and dying is always my kryptonite, so with all of these in play, I was nervous.... This thing went together beautifully, the fit and the lines were exactly how I wanted, the spring retention worked exactly how I had planned it, the dying went on clean and soft with a seamless fade from a near-black chocolate to a nice caramel blonde like a setting sun... First try on a prototype design and a dye job I'd never done before, and it worked perfectly... I threw on the final coat of sheen and hung it up to dry overnight... I couldn't believe how well it all worked out, and I was ECSTATIC it worked so well... So the next morning, I ran out to the shop to give it a test run before work... My heart hit the floor... I was doomed from the start, and had spent my evenings for a couple days on a worthless venture... Clear back at the beginning, I forgot to install the spring belt clips!!!! I forget where it is these days, packed in a box or drawer somewhere, but I have a gorgeous holster with no way to carry it...

That's kinda what I assumed - "you CAN mount them other ways, but they won't be secure..." Thanks fellas...

Any 'neat tricks' for installing bucking rolls on a Wade without a screw at the base of the fork? He doesn't have a screw under the front/seat jockey either, only up in front of the fork. A buddy called last week and wanted a set of rolls for his work saddle. No sweat. Threw a set together, dropped them in the mail. He called Sunday and asked "how do I mount these?" My own fault for not getting a pic of his saddle first. Easy answer is to just punch a hole in the jockey and run a screw to secure them, but I'm assuming that my limited experience is probably missing some other ingenious technique? So any slick ways to mount rolls on a wade that doesn't have the screw, better than just adding a screw?

I guess I could point out that I have been "dabbling" in leatherwork for 20yrs and picked up a bit of kit along the way to do saddle repairs, gradually getting more extensive as I went along. Whether it's accurate or not, at least according to tools shown in the Stohlman, Grant, and Jones books I've picked up to reference for saddle repairs, I have all of the tools I need to at least put one together. Maybe it'd turn into a profession as I get older, but I have a lot of irons in the fire these days, so I can't picture putting even 10-20hrs a week consistently into saddlemaking for a while. My wife gets on me all the time because I have so much in my leatherworking tools and machines, but don't put them to good enough use. I'd like to attend a school, as I figure that's one of the best options for me to get one built, I just haven't found the right timing for the right school that fits into my travel. Hopefully that'll be in the cards in the next couple of years. But until then, I figure I'm not out much to try my hand at a couple. I'm a bit of a perpetual DIY'er, so I'm less worried about the financial sense than I am about ruining a good tree as I'm trying to figure it out.

I'm sure this gets asked on here a lot, but I'm having difficulty finding it for some reason through the search function. I'm looking to build my first saddle, and frankly, since I've joined here, I think the things I knew about "good saddles" has gone out the window. I've spent my entire adult life riding in trophy saddles, naturally with varied quality, but typically at the lower end of the spectrum in the grand scheme of things. My goal here is not a fantasy to get rich building saddles, or to become a renowned maker. My intent, which I'll admit is a bit romanticized, is to never need to buy a saddle in my adult life. Now that I'm not competing as much, my likelihood to win saddles is dwindling, and I'd like to sustain those which I've won thus far (I suppose I can go back to team roping). So please help me out with my thought process, and also provide a bit of direction to help me pick my tree-maker for my first saddle. Before I came to this site, I had intended to buy a Corriente or Billy Cook tree this fall and work on the build during the slow times this winter. Naturally, I recognize what the Corriente tree is, he11, their wade has an aluminum horn... BUT, they're cheap enough that if I botch the first one in some way, I don't have to feel too bad about ruining the tree. In looking around here, it seems that Rod and Denise are THE place to get a tree, but it also seems it's also a long wait list to get one from them right now. Let alone I understand the price is pretty high. The only other name I've seen on here is Glenn Christman, but haven't been able to find a site or contact info for him? Is there anyone else in the game? Is there anyone else that puts out a solid tree that's somewhere in the middle of that spread? When I google "saddle tree makers" I get folks that I have heard of like Steele, Ghormley, Swanke, Frecker, Miller... But I'm never necessarily one to trust what I simply hear, as most folks LOVE the saddle they're on, even if they don't really know who made it or whether it's good or not. And of course it's hard to tell anything about a tree just in photographs - hard for me at least. My fear with going with a $700 tree is that I'm going to screw it up in some way, so I'm tempted to buy a cheaper tree like the Corriente to "learn on," maybe even build upon twice, or build a couple on cheaper trees before I spend the money on a proper tree from a better maker? My nature would be to build the tree myself, but to be honest, despite my woodworking background, I'm not confident in my ability to pull one out of thin air. Plus, I don't have access to a bandsaw with a deep enough throat or cut height to go after something that large. I know you get what you pay for in things like this, but I can also see a bit of value in buying a lower end tree and lower grade leather to crank out a "test run" or two, or 4. I can always turn that into my breaking saddle such that I don't have to feel as bad when they try to rub it off on the fence. Then the second, third, or fourth saddle could be the "real deal". So... Thoughts on my way of thinking? Advice on other tree makers at any part of the spectrum, good to go with or ones to stay away from? Comments on Corriente or Billy Cook's cheaper trees?

Considering that this is over a year old, I'll assume that a solution has been found already, but I noticed that most of these responses were scattered through that time, and I'm more than willing to help where/how I can when it comes to bull ropes. Honestly, it was kinda a breath of fresh air to see a thread about bull ropes here, since the saddlemaking threads are all WAY over my head (for now, God willing!). I'm a 4th gen rodeo cowboy, semi-retired at this point, as I've been riding bulls and bareback horses for over 20yrs (moreso due to wife and kids than any other reason). I've also been making bull ropes for almost 10yrs. I've been coaching high school, youth, and college riders and putting on bull riding clinics/schools for as long. Kids ropes, while fantastically simpler to braid than adult bull ropes, are still very time consuming, and the "tricks" in the ropes that account for their durability, functionality, and safety aren't really easy to pick out unless you have someone show you how to braid it. What to look for in a kid rope - you do NOT want a kid rope that looks just like an adult rope. If he's riding sheep at 5-6yrs old, then it might only be 8ft long, with a calf rope slightly longer. Kids are REALLY hard to build ropes for, as they might ride anything from a shorn sheep up through a junior/miniature bull. Kids ropes should be 5 plait all the way through, with a strong riser, but a skip lace handle, or a half-length full lace handle with NO CORD. The tail should be loose to medium braided 7 plait, and the whole shebang needs to be under an inch wide for the entire length, with the handle as narrow as a half inch (mine are usually 5/8"). Comparatively, the handles of adult bull ropes are always 9 plait, a much harder/stiffer braid, and are full laced through the hand with options for half length, skip, or full length full lacing. The riser is what really keeps the kid safe and prevents hang ups. The rest of the rope being 5 plait will offer some give that tends to be nicer to growing bodies, and takes some of the snap out of faster moving, smaller stock, let alone taking that snap off of those young developing, under-strengthed joints and muscles.The smaller width will be more apt to fit smaller hands. Oddly, kids can use a proportionately wider handle than adults - as mentioned, kids handles are usually in the 1/2" to 5/8" width, whereas I've ridden my entire career on 7/8" to 1 1/8" handles, with quite large hands. Most kids ropes are cut from 1/2" polypropylene, whereas adult ropes are typically 7/8" rope, but a lot of funky things are going on these days with different body materials. The best idea to mitigate costs as a kid rider is to buy a used rope. Kids don't hardly ever wear out a rope, so used ropes tend to be almost as good of condition as the day they left the braider. Kids will change stock size very quickly as they grow up and most kids don't have a busy enough rodeo schedule to wear one out, and again - they leave the braider pretty limp as it is, so there's not much to wear out on them in general. I suppose it's fair to say that "used ropes come from somewhere," so SOMEBODY has to buy it new before it can be sold used, but as you're seeing, you'll often have over $100 into a kids rope. Saddlebarn sells decent kids ropes, but if he's serious about competing, there are far better ropes out there. I know a couple 5-10yr old kids that make more money riding junior bulls each year than I made my first year out of college, as you can imagine, the rope they use is very different than a rope used by a kid that gets on at 2 or 3 local shows each season. Side note: The kid's saddlebarn vests are typically sufficient, but by the time the kid gets to say 100-120lbs, a Ride Right or Phoenix is really the way to go. As a "guy that fixes stuff" around rodeo, I've repaired a lot of vests, and the saddlebarn adult vests are basically made the same as the little kid vests - and I will say it this way - Cardboard should NOT be involved in a bull riding vest. I'll also say two things to you that I say to every kid/adult that I've ever talked to about starting to ride bulls. 1) Bull riding is the worst idea anybody ever has. For some of us, it's just inside of us, so no matter what, that's where our life will go. For the rest of folks, it's a HUGELY STUPID RISK. I had a kid at a school a few years ago, 20yrs old, college kid, parents paid for the school because he always wanted to try it. It was either the 3rd or 4th bull he'd ever got on, he got rolled up on the ground and broke his neck, he'll never walk again. He wasn't out to be a career cowboy, just a guy that wanted to try something that looked "extreme". I'd never tell someone how to live their life, and certainly not how to raise their kids or grandkids, but I'd be remiss if I didn't tell it like it is. I've seen too many pros get seriously hurt, even at "po-dunk" rodeos on "pud" stock, that I really gotta say if it's not something a person NEEDS to do in their life, then it's much better left alone. 2) Bull ropes are consumable items. They aint cheap, but entry fees aren't either, and falling off because your rope isn't in top shape costs a lot more than a new rope would have. Even at amateur rodeos these days, making ONE EXTRA RIDE will pay back a new rope as compared to trying to wring the last life out of a worn out rope. I've been on both sides of that coin. I started braiding ropes because I couldn't afford as many new ropes as I needed each year. In my prime I was getting on 300-400 head each season between practice and competition, and I could go through 4 ropes easily each year. For the average circuit cowboy, they should be getting a new rope every season. Riding style, rope preference, body type, and success rate all play in there - a big heavy guy that either really cranks over the top or really lets back and makes 8 seconds on most of his bulls will wear out a rope a lot faster than a leg riding pip-squeak rider that falls off at 2 seconds every ride. A lot of riders will say that rope braiders are the ones that came up with the "new rope every 50-75 head" or "new rope every season" rules to drum up business, but the reality is that if you're riding well, you won't usually get more than about 150 head out of a GREAT rope, and 50 or less out of "budget friendly ropes" before the handle and riser are broken down to the point that it'll hurt your riding percentage. #2 isn't usually a problem for young kids, again, because they might take 4yrs to hit 75 head, and their ropes aren't under the same stresses as adult ropes, AND again, they advance to larger stock that out grows them sooner than that, but it's still something to be mindful of. Feel free to PM me if you want some lines on where to look, or any other advice on gear, training, technique, training tools, or anything else rodeo or bull riding.

Quoting oltoot: 2) If the user or the circumstance results in rope giving and horn taking a solid hit vs the practiced running of some it will produce a lot of leverage on a horse's withers... Can you elaborate on this statement a bit to be sure I'm tracking with you? I'd tend to agree that an advantage of a low gullet Wade as compared to swell fork saddles is that the leverage against the horn is lower, reducing pressure and giving power and stability back to the horse - BUT... Comparatively, would you still expect a difference in leverage compared to a 'normal' swell fork association or roping saddle? In my limited experience, I guess I wouldn't expect the horn design it self to affect the leverage, but rather the height to be the dominating factor. I wouldn't necessarily expect that an association saddle with a Wade-style would have different leverage than any other swell fork tree with a similar horn height, am I wrong about that? I've always ridden in swell fork saddles like association saddles and roping saddles, but I'm looking for something new to try. While I'm not pulling bulls anymore like I used to (where I REALLY wished I had a low riding Wade), most of my riding isn't under load these days, and I'm back to breaking colts and training, so I suppose I'm looking for a bit more to hang onto and something that looks good.

I've seldom seen this type of saddle over the years, but I HAVE seen them. I've always liked Wade trees with the high cantle and the big 'pelican horn', but I've done too much horse breaking to live life without swells, and I just can't get myself to care for bucking rolls. But considering that they're so few and far between, is there something "wrong" with this type of set up? Tradition is one thing, but any other problem with it functionally, in terms of saddle quality/integrity, or in terms of build complication? (First post here, by the way. Not really a saddle maker, have built a few for myself after doing my own repairs for many years. I wish I had time to make a "side job" out of it, but I tend to have too many irons in the fire to make that happen).