entiendo

What I meant by my statement is I've tried to put a few horses in bosals but they ended up with sore chins so I didn't get far. And I'm not the only one with this problem. Maybe a latigo one would help. I haven't thought about using one in years. But *I* have tried them, several times, but you haven't tried mine. Funny, I think it's you that needs to expand, but I'm sure your horses are very nice. What do you do with your horses? A pissing match, really, I don't feel that way but I'll stop here if you do. And that's not very nice, Lesley Desmond drunk. She's been sober for quite some time from the impression I got, but we didn't discuss that. She only drank coffee or water from what I saw.

I cut my own and have been doing so since I started braiding. The equipment is key!! I tried an aussie strander...no luck. I tried a homemade designed someone shared with me, more luck than the strander but still not so good. Then I bought a good cutter and have wasted little string since. It even came with roo hide cutting instructions! The string is nice though and it will give you an opportunity to see if you really enjoy braiding.

Glad to see you came back to the discussion. First off from the beginning my problem with the Vaquero tools is they are so easy to abuse when you compare it to some of the other tools available. And that's really my only beef with them. For example, all those things you say you get from your horse in a bosal..... Your horse gives you things things because your horse is more motivated in a bosal. I've rode in them too and you are right, it feels great! Almost like you aren't riding a green horse, almost, but not quite. But that same tool in angry or uneducated hands can really hurt a horse and *I* believe more so than a snaffle. Course a side pull or halter is even better for a true greenie, even better than than that, matched with the right horse, but that doesn't always happen, hell I don't think it even happens most of the time. And let's not forget what I said in an earlier post. So you see I do know what they are used for. I think that goes for all leverage type bits, but most people move up because they can't control their horse and need more leverage to stop. What do I ride...I'm disipline neutral! I did take some lessons from a gal studing Vaquaro training and I tried to get into those classes myself but sadly it didn't work out. And one of the highlights of my life was spending the weekend with Leslie Desmond. She's so gifted I really don't think she knows how she does a lot of the things she does, she just does it. I think one would need to spend a lot of time with her to really get what she teaches. On the other hand I love watching this set of DVD's I have where this dressage rider teaches you about 1 part of the horse and how to get that part. So really I study anything that's for the horse. It used to be I put all my time into thinking and doing anything "horse", kind of like my braiding now. In those years I'm sad to say I saw more bad horsemanship than good, more rushing training with pain and gimmicks than taking the time to really train. Yeah, I probably hung around in the wrong circles, maybe that's why I keep to myself these days and ride with a gal like likes Parelli... I try not to tease her about it to much.

Well thank you! The buttons take the shape of what's under them. This pineapple button has an 8 string terminal knot under so it just naturally tapers. The flesh side is beveled. I have to say though I like rawhide's more than I like mine. Mine is a nice stampede string, his is art.

Well gees rawhider you're no fun! When I mean 1 rein, I mean 1 rein at a time for each request. Even a whoa. I do own snaffles with links though and have pretty much switched over just because they are better, although I haven't trained other horses besides mine in a few years now. The good part about that is my horse is trained, it used to be I was always on something green! LOL Of course any tool is can be abused in the wrong hands some are just easier to abuse than others. And I'm beating my head against a wall as well, but I do love to talk horse training but don't want to dig to far into it because this isn't a training board. And these days I actually prefer braiding talk. We like what we like and we use what works for us and that really goes for horse training and braiding. So many ways to do things right. I can't believe any of us would continue to do something that didn't work. And it's good advice not to make anything you don't believe in, that's why I haven't. I think they are beautiful though and do want to make one but I'm not sure what I want to do for a core yet. And I don't have any pictures with my horse working..darn. This computer is full of braiding pictures my old computer has all the horse training pictures.

Yep, sure does that's why I don't use my snaffles with 2 reins...And I think that's why the snaffle with a link in the middle is so popular. I just don't like to worry about rubbing those horses raw under the chin. If I didn't have to worry about that I would probably use a bosal from time to time, depending on the horse. However I teach one rein cues before I move onto 2 reins so I would use the snaffle first. Course with my nifty little bitless pictured above it is designed to work with 1 rein or 2, and I really like that. Course it does have one design flaw I do not like. The maker wants the nose band pretty snug, kind of like an English noseband and it doesn't allow for much jaw movement. So needless to say I don't use the bridle until my horse can wear the noseband somewhat loose. And it's always the uneducated hand that makes the head tossers and nose pokers.

*Where is the smilie face there it's pulling it's hair out* I'm not talking about my own horsemanship, I'm talking about the average owner. Maybe it is all about education but educating the hands is very difficult and a bosal can be a harsh tool. Most never work hard enough to develope the timeing of the release. And most your Vaquero spade bits are not use properly either. Many are use as a tool of leverage rather than a way of quitely communicating with a horse. Anyway, are both of you telling me you never made a horse bleed under the chin where the bosal sits? Not only that a snaffle allows for much better side to side commuincation.

My point is that most bosals are to HARSH...Now your right fit and make is everything but it appears most horse people do not fit their bosals properly or they can't afford a nicely made one, whatever the case is the horse suffers. I've never seen a horse that doesn't respect a bosal but I've seen a few that have been abused by one and even more that have been abused by mechanical hackamores. I hate those things. You are lucky to be able to make your own! So this fancy little bitless I have have is perfect because it fits a broader range of horses, it's easier for the average horse person to properly fit, and it's much more difficult to turn into an instrument of abuse. *I* also think my cues to the horse are much more clear but that's just my opinion. That said I'd like to make a bosal, but I'd like to use something more giving for a core...We'll see, I'm not ready for that yet.

Oh...bit hobbles...You cowboys.....I just don't know sometimes...

Now traditionally does the horse go in a bosal first or a snaffle bit? Nothing wrong with changing tradition a little if it works better.

Wow, thanks Jerry. I might just give it a try.

I've given up on bosals, I've never been able to find one that works in a way that I like. The cue is sloppy and more often than not it rubs the horse raw somewhere. Here's what I use...Of course I did the decorating the bridles come plain and I couldn't have that being a braider and all...

D'oh, I thought they were chin straps! I think your braiding is lovely. What's the core on that bosal? it looks a tad narrow.

I use 1/8" 4 plait and make the knots directly on the piece. However, the string on this one is cut slightly larger because the guy that ordered it wanted something a bit thicker.

How many plaits for the core? heck how many plaits for the reins... Beautiful work!! Now isn't the plaiting square or flat on anything over 6 plait if a core isn't used?

thanks

Thanks mega, but I have to admit I don't like cutting my roo that big. I actually don't like cutting it over 1/8" My first quirt I did cut it fairly large so I could get a good feel for what I wanted to do. It's going to take me a bit to figure out how to make it 1/2". I follow the instructions for a quirt in Grants cowboy gear book. I take leather strips and wrap it in wax string. I really like the feel of it but it's difficult to get an exact size.

Holy moly!!! 20 strings!! I can't even hold 6 in each hand yet. What's the pattern for 20 strings? In all seriousness though, it does make sense, because that's the size I cut the most and I could actually braid my quirt with spare string from other projects if I waited long enough. A quirt isn't that long so instead of key chains and bracelets I'd have a lovely quirt. I'm dreaming though, there's no way I'm ready for 20 strings! Perhaps I could make a smaller quirt core though and try 12 plait again.

Kangaroo and goat are soft too but I'd still use soap. Like Spence said it helps the string slide into place.

I know of no tractor supply, but can I get this at Tandy? I'm only using scraps so it's no big deal.

That's just so wrong!!!! *pout* I hate doing the math! How about I post my quirt core and you all tell me what width to cut the string...

Well I'm running into a bit of a problem because I don't have cowhide so I'm working with very thin kangaroo for the foundation. What I did is wrap the tape a few times and that seemed to do the trick and give it a nice shape...But sadly I still have to use glue because the braiding just doesn't wrap around the foundation like it would if it was a thicker piece of leather. I still like it much better than the way I used to do it, so thank you very very much!

As far as I know most braiders use something to make the string more workable and from what I've read most use white saddle soap. Something different is used with rawhide. You might need it more so for deer skin. I have 1 pretty weak kangaroo hide and when I'm tightening a button I add a bit more saddle soap to be sure it slides nicely to reduce the chance of it breaking.

I'm bringing this back up..hopefully rawhider or someone else that does these slides will see it. I finally got one done that I like, an all whiskey gaucho. Anywho my question is, have you ever wrapped it with a little wax string when doing the herringbone to give the slide a more rounded look?

OK, maybe I should have written "rinse it", but since soap is involved I think of wash. I rinse the saddle soap off and towel dry. You are putting saddle soap on your strings aren't you? I thought I read that. And the leash rolls best when its a tad damp. I let it dry about 45 minutes or so before I roll it. Yes, a turnback is a back braid, my mentor used the term "turnback" so of course that's what I use.