gothcowboy

Glad someone stepped up and ID'd it - beat me to it. I have a few Bona Allen saddles. FWIW - oiling a really dirty old saddle like this doesn't clean it, it just soaks the dirt in. You could use a mild detergent like diluted Dawn dishwashing detergent and a super soft baby toothbrush, clean out all the crevices, rinse with water and a rag. When it's dry you can use a less greasy heavy duty conditioner like Oakwood Leather Conditioner. With a saddlelike this, you may take a couple days to condition it. It's had years of neglect to make up for. Adding oil to decades of filth is like "washing" your dirty hair with axle grease. Soap and water cleans (think shampoo), rinse really well, then you do a conditioner. Clean first, then condition. Also, having that leather damp will give you an opportunity to reshape the skirts over a day or so as they dry. After the leather is moisturized they don't shape as easily, or set as well.

I picked up a project saddle, an old Cow Country production saddle, and it's turned into a horrible thing (of course). It needs new everything, so why do I persist? Well, because before I tore into it a whole bunch I already got new fenders for it, re-dyed and conditioned it, etc.. I knew it needed a new seat, but figured it wouldn't be too difficult... until I took the old one completely off. Turns out the old padded seat is two pieces of leather that joins in the center under a section of padded seat leather. There is no solid piece of leather as a seat to put new padding and leather on - it's literally the two jockeys sewn to a disintegrated seat, and that old disintegrated seat is what went up under the cantle binding. Then, underneath the old seat is some yucky old hair felt nailed directly to the tree, right over the strainer. It's nasty. I'm sure I'm not the first person to discover something like this. Short of killing it with fire or cutting a completely new seat, jockeys, etc., what's a good solution here? Should I just reassemble it with new heavier leather to replace the old padded section, than pad that piece, or reassemble it exactly as it was built with the skimpy padded seat section holding both sides together? I appreciate any tips!

That's pretty interesting about the stirrup buckles. I'm going to see how the Tough-1 brand works. I have a feeling they may not fit as tight or smooth, but it remains to be seen. As far as the stirrup pegs and special blanket pin setup goes, they used to be marketed on standup cards on the counters of tack stores back in the day (sort of like replacement spur rowels), and I can almost remember what they looked like, except I cannot for the life of me remember who made them. There's a chance there may have been an ad for them in an ancient Western Horsemen magazine or something, but I haven't looked. All that would tell me is who made them, and I doubt that company is still in business, and certainly would not still be manufacturing such an obscure setup. I was hoping a cowpoke had some new old stock hoarded away someplace, waiting for that one day someone like me would actually need them. That looks unlikely.

Hi Josh - Thanks for the link, but that's not the same kind of pins. Attaching a pic, just for the visual. Originally, there was a special type of blanket pin that went through the two pins that go in the holes on the stirrup leathers. I'm attaching a pic similar to the type of "safer" blanket-style pin that used to come as a set with the pegs. Somebody made earrings out of that style. Still on the hunt for those Harris-style buckles. No joy so far.

I know I've seen them someplace, but does anyone know where I can find quick change Western stirrup leather buckles like those used on Harris (and a few other brands') saddles? I found some similar (imports) by Tough-1, but those appear to be plated hardware and I'm looking for something more durable that won't rust, probably stainless steel. Worst case scenario is I replace the old Al Ray buckles with Blevins, but my hands are telling me no. I've really developed a dislike for them. I'm also trying to find replacement pins for an old set of stirrup leathers - the kind that had a peg through each hole, then something similar to a blanket pin went through them. I can't for the life of me remember what they were called, or who made them. I used to see them in old catalogs, and every once in awhile on eBay, but I haven't seen any for years. I'm old enough to remember when they were still sold in tack stores! I'm trying to replace some old corroded ones, just for the sake of keeping the saddle original. Any help is much appreciated!

The horn, gullet, conchos/strings and shape of the seat in relation to the cantle all look Mexican made. A lot of Mexican made saddles wind up in the US, so it very well have come from the States. Usually, a view from the front will better show the shape of the fork and gullet, which are also pretty easily identified as Mexican made. It looks to be in very good condition though.

Thanks a bunch! and sorry to hear about your clutter-induced accident. I know those well... I figured it for about 50's era, maybe super early 60s. Has brass hardware and 3.5" galvanized bells still in good shape, minus one missing tread. It needs a few other updates, but nothing major except for new fleece and strings. I've cleaned it and still conditioning it, but other than the norm it really doesn't have insurmountable issues for a saddle its age. All in all, it's still a tight little rig and I'm really happy with it. I'd just like to keep it original, for the most part, hence my search for stirrup pins and sawtooth rosettes.

I recently acquired a vintage roughout roping saddle in its original condition. It has 3" wide fender adjustment, with the old bolt and blanket pin system. From the marks left, it doesn't appear the stirrups were ever adjusted with the old lacing system, and definitely never Blevins, though lace adjustment may have been replaced with the bolts and pin system shortly after purchase. Naturally, the pins are missing, so the former owner used baling wire in their place. I'm wondering if anyone knows approximately when the pin system was in its zenith to help date the saddle. (I rode in an old JC Higgins in the early 60s that used the bolt and pin adjusters, FWIW.) There are no maker marks that I've yet discovered, though I have not yet pulled back the seat to find any marks that may be on the rawhide tree. I'd like to find replacement pins if anyone knows of any (I remember they used to be sold on cards at tack stores eons ago!), and I'm also trying to find replacement leather rosettes with the old sawtooth edge. Pics attached. Any insights are appreciated. Thanks!

I believe I may have seen an extra cover plate in the drawer that came with the table it's on. Not sure if it's the correct cover plate yet. The whole thing needs to be cleaned, it's so filthy. The motor underneath says "Lawrence M. Stein" in Chicago, speed 1750, 1/4 HP. I believe that's older than dirt, from what I can find about the Lawrence M. Stein company. Once I get it clean and together I'll strongly consider replacing the motor.

Aha! That's what I thought. Thanks so much for the photo, because it helps fill in the blanks for me, visually. I need to order a complete walking foot assembly, as well.

Awesome intel - thanks! Anything related to industrial machines is all new territory for me. I used one years ago, but it was a completely different type of machine, and knowing how it worked, or its components, weren't a consideration at the time. Now that I own this behemoth, I have no choice but to get it figured out. It's missing the belt from the motor to the machine, and the belt at the end of the machine. I know I can pick those up on eBay. And it appears to move like a walking foot, but only has a single foot. To me, that was odd right off the bat. I don't know if it's missing part of the walking foot, or that's just the way it is.

It's not a Singer 111w105, it's a 111w103. Pays to have your glasses on, I guess. At any rate, I can't find a user's manual anywhere. I can find parts manuals, but not user's manuals. Any help would be appreciated.

I just committed to buy an old Singer 111w105. I don't know much about them other than they're old, and they weigh about as much as a refrigerator. Has anyone had one? The foot looks like this in its current state. Any intel would be appreciated. This is a little side project I may live to regret!

Looks very early 70's, and has not had much love. I would not bid over $100 because it needs a lot of TLC, and that's if there is no dry rot or cracking on important parts like the stirrup leathers. A saddle that neglected would also have suspicious stitching. There's not much about it that makes it worth more than that in its current condition, and it isn't particularly collectable.

I know I've seen this saddle before. Seems to me one that looks like this was advertised in Western Horsemen magazines around the late 60s to very early 70s. Unfortunately, I don't have those stored here at home, so I can't say definitely. It was a small ad, black and white, that ran middle-to-back of the magazine. I can remember everything about it but the name - argh!

From a buyer's perspective, I want to see the saddle dead on from the side, in addition to front and back. I want to see how the seat profiles sitting absolutely level, with no twist toward the camera whatsoever (which is the most common problem I see in "for sale" photos). I don't want the distortion of looking down on the seat, and guessing how it profiles, either. I found by crouching a little bit, and making sure the saddle was posed straight from head to tail, I could get photos like this. I see a lot of saddles on this forum posed dead on from the side, and in my mind, that's exactly how it should be. I can tell right off the bat if the seat has the profile I like. The other thing I want to see, is the saddle on a rack with "withers." Saddles posed dumped downhill skew the line of the skirts, and again misrepresent the seatwork. Drives me nuts. If I'm buying some undiscovered gem off Craigslist, fine, but I think it's pretty obtuse for someone who advertises their great seatwork and professional skirt design not to show it off. Pose the stirrup leathers where they're supposed to hang, not jacked forward like some 1969 Simco ad. I don't want to guess how if I'm not "spurring 'em in the shoulders", where the heck are my legs going to go the rest of the time? I'm not buying a saddle bronc saddle, for crying out loud. Most cutting and reining saddles are going to hang a little forward, but yanking them up there to pose it makes me wonder where they really want to be. I haven't made any saddles (yet) but I've restored a bunch, and bought and sold quite a few over the years. It's so irritating to ask, "Hey, can you send a GOOD photo from the side?" and then get one of those twisted seat, dumped down, fenders pitched forward photos that still tell me absolutely... nothing.

That wood screw in the tree looks like it might be right in the middle of a crack. It's in an odd place. It might just be the photo, but the tree itself looks suspect. Also, if that wood screw is in a crack, it's just making it worse (or caused it), and it could help explain why there's some warping going on. That telltale wood screw might explain why it was "for sale." It doesn't look safe or sound, but it might only be I can't get enough perspective from the closeup. (But who puts wood screws right in a crack?)I had a colt saddle - some unmarked production saddle from the 50s - with nice thick leather and a boogered rawhide covered tree. I ended up selling it as a decoration. Not safe at any speed, and probably wasn't very comfortable for the horse. There are lots of sound colt saddles out there, and a lot of them are production saddles. Production isn't necessarily bad. But even custom stuff is bad if it's broken.

Wow, those skirts are scary. It looks like it was designed to sit on a floor and not a horse's back. Do you know if it even fits a horse, or did they want the skirts blocked in advance? A lot of those import trees have a weird dip in them from front to back, so even if the skirts were blocked the tree itself is torture. I reblocked some old American made saddles by getting the skirts really wet and putting them on a draw down stand for, like, four months or so (I just left them there to make sure they would behave themselves when I uncorked them). I guess it wouldn't take four months, but that's how long they usually ended up there, forgotten. But these were not light oil or unfinished leather, so I wasn't worried about water stains. It worked like a charm, though. The color of this doesn't look especially imported, but most of those padded skirt saddles are, so that's probably a good guess, especially if the skirts and rigging are super thin. Maybe a few light coats of Neatsfoot oil, soak the skirts with a sponge and water, then punish it on a draw down stand? Imported saddles should be punished. It's not like you have to feel bad about it or anything. (You might have a hard time explaining that philosophy to the owner.)

No, my ears always perk for all things buckstitched. I really like the stuff, if only for sentimental reasons. Most people won't be seen in public places with it, but I dig on it and like to show mine off. I don't have a huge collection, but I do have some kind of weird and cool stuff. I use it because I like it, and it isn't the same run of the mill equipment everyone else has. When it comes back in style, I'm already there ;-) That makes me way behind the times or a trendsetter for the time being.About the most you see any more on new saddles is maybe the front of a fork, or around a seat. Double buckstitching on a well made (American) saddle with big skirts makes me giddy. It's sort of like old Cadillacs with big fins and behemoth chrome bumpers.

Don't ask me how I know this... There's this stuff called Bickmore Suede & Nubuck cleaner. IT WORKS. Yes, it works on roughout seats with pee on them. Also removes rat poop stains. Wet it generously, and really work up some suds using a soft toothbrush. Wet the whole seat, not just the pee spot, so you don't leave water rings. If you have a smallish wire bristle brush (not super strength, like to clean a BBQ - but like the kind you'd use to take old paint off a window frame) use that when it's completely dry to brush the nap back up. But it will take a day or two to really dry. If you use a wire brush when it's wet, it can stretch and tear up your leather. Pee Be Gone.

Judging by that tooling pattern, fork, and color, this was a very late 70's to early 80's model. It's a regular model, it just has smaller skirts. Simco was not known for having generously sized skirts, unless it was a roping saddle. I have an early 80's Simco show saddle (unusual big skirts, pelican horn, built up seat - weighs a ton) and the Simcos of that era went to a looser, loopier tooling pattern, like yours. That color, IIRC, was called walnut, and was a stock color. It was different than dark oil saddles of that era in that the finish was dyed - not oiled - that nice chocolate color. Hence, they lasted longer, the tooling stayed much crisper, and they weren't a mushy mess 40 years later. The lower priced Circle Ys, in contrast, were typically dark oiled over some funky brown dye job, and became a slimey critter that attracted dust in no time, and the tooling became less distinct (many were embossed, anyway). If you use something like Bickmore cleaner with a soft toothbrush, it'll get all the dirt out of your tooling (which usually photographs light). It takes awhile... Follow that up with a couple coats of Bickmore Bick 4 conditioner, buff to a luster, and it will condition it and restore a lot of the lost color without it becoming an oily mess.

Wow, I'd love to see photos. It sounds beautiful. Not much buckstitched tack with basket stamping around. I wouldn't go punching any holes in the skirts to mount aftermarket silver. It totally ruins it, plus it looks uber cheesy to plop silver pieces on top of tooling without a (original) border tooled around it. If anything, I'd upgrade to some nice sized slotted sterling conchos, and keep the original saddle strings if they're still intact. Most of the rear strings on that model were braided, which made them unique.

I'd bet anything this is a Tex Tan, I rode in one just like it (minus the taps) in the 70's. Back then it was the somethingorother Cutter (I had the catalog it was in back in the day), and it's most recent version (by special request only) is called the Golden Cutter. Believe it or not, Tex Tan does/did make a double row buckstitched saddle in this century. Usually, the only market is with the Missouri Fox Trotter show peeps, so it isn't like there's huge demand. Tex Tan used to do a lot more custom work than they do now, and some private label stuff, so there's a good chance this model with factory taps was a custom order or a salesman's sample. Anymore, the mere mention of the word sends them into fits. "Can I get this with a black seat instead of brown?" could get you the death penalty with their customer service.

You don't use any kind of deglazer before you dye the leather? I would think saddle soap would prevent the dye from penetrating. Have you dyed any black with oil dye? Oh, good idea. I hadn't even thought about motorcycle seats.

I'm toying with what is probably a bad idea, which is dyeing an older light-medium oil saddle black. I'm sure there are a million horror stories about such an endeavor gone horribly wrong. Has anyone done this successfully, and if so what type of dye(s) did you use, and what works best to prep? I read it's best to go with a blue-based dye first, then black, to cut the green color. I've done a lot of repair and restoration, but I have never tried completely dyeing seasoned saddle leather black. But I want to. I'm itching to.