Outlaw68

Just remembered bout this thread. I was remodelin the shop last year and sent all my good stuff like that saddle to my brother's so there'd be no chance of it gettin damaged. Since then I've been workin on gear a lot lately and it slipped my mind. I'm almost done fixing the fifth saddle I've gotten in to work on this year and since things are startin to calm down and I've got the saddle back. I'm gonna get some pictures here quick. It needs a good cleaning and a coat of dubbin. Hasn't been messed with in over a year, so it's not that shiny, but when it's cleaned up it gets a real nice shine. It's not heavily tooled or anything, just plain double line border tool on the riggin straps, sweat leathers, seat, and leather flaps on the stirrups, but it's pretty in my opinion. I grew up on saddles like this and the old Porters. I think these are the most comfortable, but this is the only one of that style I have. I got the pony and another few and it fits all real well, even a good bit of the bigger horses I ride too, (no, it doesn't have modern bars. It's just how it's built) but I found my old Porter in the barn (thought my dad had sold it years ago. Reckon he forgot about it. It's got the same angle to the bars and fits the ponies too) and fixed it up, so I don't need to fix this one up to ride, but I'm still thinking about it, at least as a project for the future. Tree and horn are still tight and all the leather's soft and supple, just a few pieces broke. If I ever do go to fix it to ride I'll replace all the riggin just to be safe, but it's overall in good shape.

Yes, this saddle is worth saving. I'm sorry to have seen this this late and I hope you haven't tossed the saddle yet. If you still have it would you want to keep it, clean it up and use it, or set it out as decor, or sell it? I have one of these, though mine is older than that one. Mine is a 1939 with border tooling and is in amazing condition. I had to replace the saddlestrings, both leather and brass conchos, rope strap, fork strap, both latigos, and stirrup hobbles, but everything else (except the fleece, it's useable, but ugly as a cross eyed three legged cur dog) was in incredible condition and still completely useable. I'd say if you still have it then post more pictures of it so we could be of better help. Could be wrong cuz of the bad lighting, but that looks like a real fleece on it, the original at that. Over all, it looks like it's in good condition and just needs a really good cleaning and deep conditioning, and maybe a few pieces replaced or repaired. Don't get discouraged. Mine took a couple weeks to get all the dirt off and another couple to get it conditioned. It was still pliable, but it kept soaking in the oil. Now it is evenly colored and feels better than any newer saddle I've rode. I hope this helps as a place to start. First off, if you want to keep it as a decoration or collectible, then be very careful in the next steps not to damage or throw away anything as everything needs to be original to retain it's collector's value. If you want to use it, then still be careful, but you can replace things. Check the tree and make sure it's still solid and the horn's tight. Once you check the tree and horn then take it apart as much as you can, for instance, take off all the strings and conchos. By doing this, the rear jockey and the skirts will come off, leaving the bottom of the rawhided bars bare. Take off the fenders/leathers and this will let you get in closer to the tree and riggin. If you can, pull the seat up carefully. It's stitched down at the cantle binding and will have hide glue holding it to the groundseat, so if it doesn't want to come easily, then leave it. I only say to do this to clean under there. If it comes up though, don't keep pulling till it creases the leather, just pull it barely enough to dust out any dirt, hair, hay, and whatnot. Use a horsehair brush and carefully dust the entire thing, not forgetting the nooks and crannies. Once no more dust is coming off, then use a gentle, natural saddle soap and some warm water. A good soap that's easier to get is Fiebing's. I make my own soap, but if I use premade, I use Fiebing's yellow or white paste soap. It will take many washings to get off all the dirt. Get it clean and when your rag comes away clean on all spots then, while it's still damp, not wet, but damp, apply a light coat of pure neatsfoot oil (make sure it doesn't have anything else in it such as mineral oil or synthetic. You can also use lard or tallow, which are actually my favorites. Apply it with your hand as it will warm the oil and help it to penetrate the leather better. Check the saddle the next day. If all the oil is soaked in then go and apply another coat. Do this until it has a light oily feel once it's sat for a few hours, then wipe it off, buff it to a nice finish, apply a beeswax and natural animal fat conditioner in an even coat then buff it to a soft shine. While you're at it, if you plan on useing the saddle, replace the fleece. Since it's an old saddle, use only a real sheepskin. A synthetic will lower the value of the saddle greatly. Make sure to sew it through the original stitching holes. Carefully check the rigging and make sure it's strong. Replace it if needed and check everything else carefully. I'd recommend new strings and latigos just to be safe, and check the stirrup leathers. Uncrease the skirts and reblock them if you have to. String everything tight and you're good to go. Keep us updated. I'd love to see it through the process.

I'd say market it as an antique. Doesn't look like it'd fit many nowadays and not havin a rawhided tree it may not be very stout anymore. If it's still sturdy an rideable I'd say maybe thoroughbred cross

That's a horse saddle. I have a Texas Hope from the early-mid 1800s with no fleece or even lining at all. All it had was rawhide and leather, but the leather is worn off. That's the same hand hole width as mine. Most modern saddles have a 3-4, so that narrow width also makes me think lat 1800s. I couldn't read the seat length. What was it? Yeah, a lot of stirrups were small, but mine, surprisingly, are 5/5, but then it was a man's saddle. 22 pounds is pretty light. Most were 40-60, but those are working saddles. Mine was a working saddle, but has no skirts and weights in at just over 10 pounds. Just looking at it I do think it was just a pleasure/trail. Maybe some town's person who wanted to take a hack about on occasion. I doubt it would handle much more than that and back then things were built to do their job, so that's probably what it was built for. DO you see a maker's mark, serial/product number, or any monograms?

First off, beautiful saddle! I'm curious about why in the world there's a billet in the left riggin ring. Is it riveted, stitched, or laced in or just hanging? Is there one in the right ring or a latigo? I'm afraid I can't be too much help, though I can say, I that looks like an American saddle, not Mexican. The horn is too high and it's shaped wrong to be a roper and the lack or rawhide on the tree confirms it. Just looks like an old trail saddle, but is for sure not a Silla/Charro or Drover/Hope. Being without rear riggin, it couldn't have been ridden, or at least wasn't made to ride in any very hilly country. If the riggin was centerfire it could have handled some hills, but not with that. There are no tapaderos and it looks like it never had any judging by the color of the leather. The lack of tapaderos says it wasn't ridden in brush country or around a lot of cactus. It only has six saddlestrings vs eight, the skirts are square with rounded corners instead of sharp square, and the lack of rawhided tree say it's probably younger than it looks, though I'm seeing some different years in the style. The most strong year I'm seeing so far is late 1890s or early 1900s. Don't take my word for it. I haven't seen the whole saddle and could be off by a long margin. Sadly I can't tell you who made it or the value, though with more info I might be able to give a vague idea on value. Could you show some pictures of it from the front, rear, and an above view? Maybe hold a tape measure across the handhole so we can see the width? Measure how wide the stirrups are and how tall the horn and cantle are. How much does it weigh? Check the saddle over real well for any maker's marks or any identifying numbers. Since it's not got rawhide on the tree I'm making a pretty safe bet that there won't be a mark, but you never know.

Thanks. Yeah, I know of the Hope being young, just wondering if it went by another name besides drover. Also, is there a difference between Charro and Silla or is Silla just an older word for a Charro saddle?

Does anyone know who was the first maker to: cut stirrup grooves in the under side of the bars? I don't mean the tapering notch either, but the one that fits the strap? make shoulder flare? make bar relief? make rock? make twist?

Alright, now I've got a question and I've been looking for an answer and can't seem to fine one, so if anyone has it, please let me know. What is the difference exactly between Hope, Visila, and Santa Fe saddles or are they all the same saddle going by a different name? I'm asking mostly in the 1800s perspective, but also curious about modern definitions. I know they're all A-Fork drover saddles and are all narrower through the fork than the slightly younger Wade saddles which are a cross between A-Fork and Swell Fork, but I'm wondering if the above mentioned saddles are the same or different and if they're different, what are the differences and are there any other similar styles or different names for the same saddles?

Okay, thanks, I'll have to look into it.

I've tried, but the quality of photos and lighting is terrible, I'll keep trying though.

Since it may take so long to get any hides and I've asked around and can't find anyone who has any or will in the next several months, maybe longer, does anyone know of some online store or website that sells natural cattle rawhide, maybe laces the right width and thickness for a reata? I'd prefer the right size for a four strand, but appropriate for six or eight would be nice also. I know there are a lot of people out there that sell rawhide online, but I'm wanting good natural rawhide for a reasonable price, so far I've found nothing.

I found an old photo of the saddle, the bottom of the stirrup isn't visible, but it's sadly the best photo I have, so hopefully it helps.

jdalberta1 Okay, I know this doesn't have to do with the topic, but there are many good answers on here, so I won't try to answer the question, I just have to ask, what breed and size is that pony in the picture? She's so cute and looks a lot like mine. Because of the camera angle and it only showing just a tiny bit of her I can't tell.

Thanks, I'll look into it. Also, if it helps, the stirrups are wood, but not steam bent like we're used to seeing, or even the old Mexican style stirrups that are a circle with a half moon cut out for the boot, but made of a thicker piece of wood, notched, and bent along the notches, then fastened to the bar that holds the stirrup leather, so that also makes it look to be pretty old. I've forgotten what they're called, but if anyone has ever seen Tales Of Wells Fargo, you should know the leather flaps tacked to the outer edge of Jim's stirrups, my stirrups have that too, but they don't extend past the bottom, and they don't cover the stirrup like tapaderos, just the outer edge of the wood, I think they were put on there for practicality, not looks, so in the case of needing to mount quickly he could see which way the stirrups went because the stirrup leathers are free swinging and the fenders are small, so the stirrups can get twisted up. All the metal is iron instead of steel, except for the conchos, which as I said previously, are brass.

Thanks for the replies. I know a couple guys with cattle, but it'd take a couple years at least to get enough hides...but yeah, when I do rawhide I generally work with smaller animals like squirrel, rabbit, deer, and such, so a sixty odd pound hide is pretty new to me. Generally I flesh and hair the hides, hose them off, and string them up out of the weather but where some wind can get to them to dry them faster. Oh well, who knows, maybe someday...

Alright, I'm new to messin' with cattle hides, but no tin horn when it comes to rawhide. I'm needing to get four or five green cow or steer hides or fair size so I can rawhide them and make a reata, a hackamore, a bosal, and have some leftover hide for reinforcing my tack and other odds and ends. Does anyone have any ideas on a good way to get that many hides in good condition for cheap or free? Also, is there a way anyone knows of to keep animals from messin' with the hides while they're curing out? Being that size I'll have to string them up between some trees to dry out and I've got mountain lions, coyotes, wild dogs, coons, and who knows what else runnin' around here.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures yet, might get some sometime. While I'm here, does anyone have any idea who might've made the saddle? It has no maker's marks or stamps or anything except for the stamp 123 on the near fore jockey where the fork joins the bar. I'm thinking it was made around the 1830s somewhere around Texas by a small town saddler. It seems to have been made by a very talented craftsman and judging by some of the details in how it was built, I'd say the guy rode a lot and cared a lot about his horses, maybe before he became a saddlemaker. Any info on a possible maker would be appreciated.

Hi, I have an original early 1800s Hope Saddle. It is a half seat and double rigged in the Texas H style. The saddle is in overall great and rideable condition except for the rigging which I would feel comfortable riding for a couple of short light rides on my neighbor's little pinto cowpony, which I'm hoping to buy in a couple of years, but nothing more. The saddle fits the pony very well, like it was made for her, and it fits me well too and is comfortable. I'm wanting to replace the rigging so it will be safe, but I'm wondering if anyone knows how much that will detract from the price if I ever went to sell the saddle.

I have an early 1800s double-rigged skirt-less half seat Texas Hope with two piece Samstagg rigging. The saddle overall is in great condition with a solid tree and horn but the rigging is badly surface cracked with the off rear quarter strap broken and the latigos are pretty stiff. I'm wanting to replace all the rigging to make it safe to ride and I want to make it match the original. If I were just going to use it for decoration or sell it I wouldn't bother, but it fits a little pinto cow-pony that I'm hoping to buy like a glove and fits me too, it's real comfortable. Does anyone know how much this will detract from the value if I ever went to sell it? Also, the rigging is nailed on and covered with nice floral brass conchos, I want to keep them, but I can't figure out how to get them off without damaging them. Any ideas? Thanks so much!