LakeOtter

I would like to thank everyone including the ones zeroing in on dog collars like Tove09Tilda and chuck123wapati! I really didn't expect sewing to be such a rabbit hole. I'm used to tooling a novelty and either not sewing it or just getting by a bit. I really want to get serious about using my tooling (stamping) in dog collars and, since I'll have the thick veg tan leather wet, when or if a groove seems prudent I will have that aforementioned chance to just compress a token groove to my liking and not necessarily have to gouge one with a groover. I really appreciate the takes on when it's needed and not (or even counterproductive). In fact, I started looking at French style pricking irons (which are hard to find in larger sizes... I finally found a 5.4mm spacing) but then it hit me -- goodness, that's a pretty wide groove needed to accommodate the slants! This adds another twisty turn to my stitching rabbit hole. Maybe I'd better stick to diamond style for now, whether pricking iron or a punchy stitching iron/chisel. I am serious about things I embark on, and I initially liked the idea of practicing and achieving success with pricking irons and an awl. I got an Osbourne awl haft and a 1.2mm diamond awl blade to go with it. I got 4mm pricking irons (Wuta) but for the 9oz leather I have (I already have a lot of Herman Oak 9oz and I know a lot of people with huge dogs) I started looking at larger pricking irons (for larger thread like .8 and 1.0mm thread) like 5.4mm spacing (which is some of the largest I could find at a doable price, Sinabroks). But I don't want to sink $180 (after shipping) on a pair of them in French style and wind up wishing they were diamond or straight. Actually Tove09Tilda mentioned using up to 1.0mm thread with 4mm pricking irons like I have... I'll have to experiment, since I thought that might be too chunky, hence the eye on 5.4mm pricking irons, be they French or not. Now I'm not even sure what style to get. I'm all about experimenting and practicing but I like to buy the right items the first time (because I know I'm committed to what I begin, as I was making archery bows and decent woodwind instruments) but outfitting right the first time, with premium stuff, seems challenging with stitching, lol. Again, thanks for the wonderful posts! Very useful. P.S. Update -- I did just find some wider-spaced prong diamond irons that, while economy, had surprising reviews and will help me learn, because I was able to get several spacings in 3,4,5, and 6mm all for pretty cheap, to try, and get a handle on what I'll use the most. I figure I can either all the way punch thru or, even, use them like pricking irons with my awl, to start with, if I like, so long as I give them a tap enough to get past the point. Then, if I buy expensive ones, later, I'll know which I need. I just get scared because sometimes, "later", I don't have any money, lol.

Hello and thanks in advance. I have more tooling practice, by far, than sewing, and so I'm studying two handed saddle stitching, got a pony, etc. I just want to chose a saddle stitching thread that is practical for durable use on H. Oak veg tan butt dog collars I'll be concentrating on, and trying to eventually get a few into the local tack shop with tooled designs. And I'd like to get used to what I'll continue to use, up front, and not start all over, soon, with how something behaves. I have been looking at saddle stitch info... Al Stohlman was back in the day and, even today, Jo H. is purposefully traditional. These sources recommend non-waxed linen thread, because they recommend not waxing the ends so that better ends can be made But what about my modern options like the awesome sticky thread mentioning Nylex in passing? Synthetics sound durable, and I've seen a burner tool... maybe that helps with "proper ends" in this manner? I just want a reliable product; I don't thing my customers will care if it's synthetic. The main feature is some hand-tooled designs and custom lettering. Thank you for your thoughts (or links) on pros and/or cons of threads, pre-waxed or otherwise. Jeff, Silver Springs FL, Ocala Forest

Thanks so much. I appreciate every recommendation so I know I'm not missing anything. I'll check out Robert Beard, and I super do plan on some of my own tinkering with some. I have decent files and, in case or extra removal, a diamond (CBN actually) HSS sharpening wheel left over from my prior lathe gouge maintenance, on a slow speed grinder. I wasn't sure of the no.(s) exactly I was looking for, since I don't know all the variations. But it occurred to me to look at the elCheapo-kit stamp that I like the convex nature of... and, looking, she's a 217, so (duh, I forgot to look) I'll look at other makes of 217 as well as others. Thanks for the obvious reminder, sometimes it's been right under my nose. Also I lucked up and hooked up with two Hackbarths (prob. from one of you?) from CountryZach, a 411 and a 414! Thanks again! (P.S. I'll be sure to brush up on my metal sculpting skills & practice on a spare stamp, bolt, or an old printer rod etc. before I take a file or grinder to a new BK)😅

I started with a super el-cheapo pear shader that I've actually gone back to using, for now. It is quite rounded over or convex-topped and easy to use, for me, for making nice, contoured dish shapes. When I received my B.K. Pear shaders, I was surprised to find they seemed scarcely more rounded over than a thumprint (which I expect to not be very rounded over on top). I love Barry King products and have nothing to criticize, here... in fact, I also noticed another premium brand or so pears that were fairly flat-topped like this, as well, when browsing pictures online. Must be an expert thing. (see pic attached) As a returning novice (with experience, tho) I find it difficult to make as gentle of a convex impression. They want to dig in like a thumbprint, requiring loads more expertise in walking it around and tapping gently around the outside on the shaded area, to compensate, esp. when checkered (if even possible). This flatter-or-more-rounded seems to be a preference thing. Jim Linnell showed an early Ray Hackbarth (long gone except vintage used) pear shader that was more rounded over like my cheap one. The only thing I don't like about my cheap one is its cheaply molded “checkered” pattern that matches nothing else I have. Does anyone know where I can get a more rounded pear shader in choices of horizontal lines and fairly fine checkers? I believe Hackbarths to be few and far between. Thanks! Jeff in FL

Nice big oak leaf... I often associate that sort of leaf of chipster99's with more Northern areas, but then I think I saw some similar to this changing colors on a different road about 10 minutes from here. Cool that you showcased the dried leaf with the good carving

I put some shapely, smaller oak leaves (from my yard adjacent to Ocala forest) onto my scanner. I did not squash them flat with the lid (rather I laid paper over them) but since they had twisted shapes, even forcing them flat-ish did fold over some of the lovely U-shapes (the U-shapes waiting for undercutters or lifters on leather). You can see where these few folds happened, so when I trace over them I will draw U-shapes there instead of the folds. In case you'd like some of this size or species to trace. Each full image equals one 10x8" or so standard sheet of paper. and is around a half MB each. I'm still a novice but wanted to draw up something original.

Hello, I recently reached a nice, helpful lady at Barry King tools via the number on their website: 307-672-5657 There's not been any answer at numerous, different times today so I was wondering if they are closed Mondays, all at a show, or just busy. Anyone know? Thanks! Jeff in FL

Hey, to each of you, thanks for the considerate and thoughtful replies including extra resources I'm genuinely checking out. I have a nice little Jim Linnell library and most of the stamps I should need, having gotten some years ago and then now... a variety of brands (you know how a lot of cheap ones are fine but some either need to be either premium ones, or modified). When I was learning before, I don't remember how I stitched on the straps to this poorly-beveled archery arm guard I made years ago (Pics attached, LOL) Pretty beginner-looking but it works great, still! I made the conical pattern by holding thin cardboard up to my arm. The Hobby Lobby ReaLeather veg tan has held up pretty well with conditioners. Over Time: I am and will be practicing small carving patterns for skills to eventually design and make unique FL/tropical-influenced pseudo-western patches to sew onto trucker hats, hand tooled instead of the laser ones popular now. You'd think some of the folks dropping a mint on tack and belts and boots still don a cap instead of a cowboy hat sometimes, and might drop a few extra bucks on a hand-tooled patch. Even buckstitch around it maybe sometimes. And I'll be doing collars for my dogs which would be great collar or belt practice. I also aspire to eventually make sheaths or cases for Native American-style flutes. I'll check out every link sent, thanks! The Linnell videos will continue to have me practicing a lot doing the walk-thru pieces repeatedly and finding hatchets and things to strap the practice pieces on (maybe starting with the next one... I ain't showing my recent piece, lol... it's that beginner Stohlman flower he and Jim start you with except I sized it down considerably, to fit on a tall trucker hat, lol.... so it made it harder and I ain't showing it, lol. The decision was made for me to move to this craft I admire, from wood and Native American-style flutes I spent years on and developed a trusted name (Otter Lake / Jeff Burris)when I moved to a wonderful forest cabin (but tiny with no garage) and wasn't able to afford the expected add-on shop to my new place. I could no longer set up my machines and continue flutes , and so my lathes and gun drills etc. will all be pickled in a 10x10' shed or maybe sold. So I'm starting over one last time at 54 and re-entering carving leather with the same dedication and zeal, to glorify God and make things pleasing to hold and look at, that I had for the studio-ready wooden instruments that, once sold on occasion to instructors and recording artists, are now permanently out of stock, while I've set up to practice leather daily and give it my all for years to come (if the creek don't rise). Thanks -- you all are like the flute crowd in that there is a bunch of stand-up, friendly help.

Hello and thanks for having me! I am excited to immerse myself into carving leather, which I'd done a little of years ago. Moving back to leather craft allows me to operate (on some level) with less space for all the machines I had to have for making Native American-style flutes, like two lathes end-to-end with a rifle boring drill modified for cutting wooden bores for woodwinds, etc... it may require a couple years practice before I'm comfortable selling anything, all over again (like it was with my better flutes), but I always did want to get back into tooling leather, so now's the time, since the plan to build a wood shop has fallen through (long story, it wound up costing twice what was expected to build the new shop on the new property... when I'd originally priced it, before selling my home and moving, two outbuilding/shed builders both lied about being licensed or insured). I didn't want to get set up to be sued, didn't have time to DIY being a contractor, and so I'm caving in and adapting to a smaller space, but still doing something I do love on the side (leather, now, again...not that I got really far with it before like I did flutes). At least I made a splash in the flute world while I was there, and I will love the larger niche of leather tooling, esp. since I have unique spins in mind for the designs, which I hope someone will want (like Florida imagery for cowboys and cowgirls, here, instead of us all showing out-of-state flora and fauna on our leather in FL). Or a premium, hand-tooled leather patch on a trucker hat instead of the ubiquitous $4.90 laser patch or one-giant-stamp-smush. The cheap leather patch hats are popular (like Hat Bars mix and match tables at certain shows) and so I thought if someone is wearing a $450 tooled belt and expensive boots, mightn't they get a trucker hat to match that's got a hand-tooled leather patch instead of the $5 one? Just a thought. And I have flute bags and other things in mind, maybe belts one day with lesser-common, FL imagery like hibiscus and manatees in between the acanthus leaves etc.) Thanks again. Jeff in FL Stuff I was making before I moved (all out of stock indefinitely, nothing for sale): https://otterlakeflutes.com/shop/ (you might have to dismiss a wordy farewell-for-now notice to the NAF community to view the page)

Thanks for the replies, guys! AlZilla -- I don't have much stitching experience at all with leather. I've either glued and/or run leather lace through big, punched holes up one side of an easy, folded-over holster build. Just that kind of stuff so far. Lots of crafting and shop experience in other ways, so I'm no noob at craftsmanship in general. I pick up on stuff fast. How do you like to stitch without a pony? Are you using the two-handed saddle stitch method or a Speedy Stitch or some other method? I do think about maybe stitching a premium, hand-tooled hat patch directly to a trucker hat (not a $5 laser engraved one, or one stamped with one big stamp) instead of just gluing it (esp. when you want at least decorative stitch anyway) and am trying to learn the different options out there. The book I got is pretty much one method, I think (saddle stitch with pony). The Speedy Stitch thing gets looked at as unprofessional, it seems, but I want to know my options. And I guess you can do the same thing as a Speedy Stitch just with an awl and needles, just a different stitch(?). I know people often advise not over-equipping oneself as a "beginner" at any one thing (like stitching leather), but I also go through long, dry periods of not having the money to buy much of anything but food and meds, so I want to get most of whatever I might need for the next long while (while I have a little bit of cash now, left) so I don't need something new when I'm broke, lol. Right now I'm looking at stitching supplies like awls, forks, needles...holder, etc. Thanks for your input! (that goes for everybody)

Thanks very much for all the replies. I got the .020" thick file and love it for some stuff... but yes, indeed, I'd forgotten how some of the needle files even at HF, while not super thin like this $23 file, do come with triangular ones and stuff to help get in tight spaces, thanks! I actually have some, somewhere, for fine-tuning Native American-style flute parts and stuff I was doing before I moved to a smaller space with no machine shop. I know I saved them, somewhere...

Hello and thanks in advance! I am practicing to make pieces that can be small or narrow (hat patches, hat bands, belt) but that have detailed work including figure or pictorial. You spend hours of time and effort on depth and 3D relief for animals and flora with fine textures etc., you know... But then even master Al Stohlman's "The Art of Hand Stitching Leather" front cover shows a tooled belt clamped right there under the wooden vice grip of a stitching pony. I just feel like it wouldn't take that much pressure to at least slightly compromise certain, painstaking work. People always talk of accidentally, barely nicking or scratching their work with xyz tool. I do not want to even slightly compress the shoulder of a bear or something, and almost considered a Speedy Stitcher, but I want to learn quality-with-efficiency, for an indefinite commitment. And stiches look great even when not needed structurally. Are there any tips you can think of other than: 1) Let the work dry good and hard before clamping into the pony 2) clamp it just tight enough not to shift or wiggle, but do not over-tighten I see some ponies have material buffering the piece from the direct wood jaws; maybe I can try some different rubbers, leathers as a buffer? I thought of felt but maybe it allows movement too much unless too tight....? Any experience or thoughts here are appreciated, Jeff in FL

Hello! This is only one example but, for example, I can see how I can take a modern, cheap F918 stamp (a figure-carving stamp like a camouflage) and modify it to be more like a vintage one if I had a very thin file (and maybe my slow speed grinder, too). I could sharpen the ends of the little metal lines (and maybe round the end over a bit more with the grinder). What kind of files do you/they use to tweak thin lines on stamps? I heard that even Barry King "used his coarsest checkering file" to customize a special order, vertical lined thumbprint for a guy. I wonder what a checkering file is like... like if it's made for the purpose(?). At first I kicked myself for giving away my banjo nut files, but then realized they only were abrasive on the edges whereas I could use something like that with abrasive also on the flats, as well. Those files came as thin as .010" thick, but you one use the thin edges. I do see a file .020" thick for sale, but, before I order, do any stamp makers or serious DIY stampers have go-to files for getting in tight spaces and making, or at least fine-tuning lines on a stamp? Thanks! P.S. I know some cheaper stamps are chrome plated. While I prefer tool steel or stainless stamps, I have found I can modify a chrome-plated stamp, removing chrome, and and still get along okay as long as I clean it with test stamps first so I don't get oxidized pot metal on my leather if it sat around for ages or something. I just don't have any thin files to get deep into grooves.

Thanks, I appreciate it.... I did mean to mention why I'm working with the aniline powder, versus other options, when there are options that don't have the same concerns: It's because I'm super strapped, can't really go buy anything new right now (esp. various colors) and already have gobs of red, yellow, blue, and green, pure aniline dye powder I bought from Bingham's for archery bow wood, and I'm loving the colors. I discovered I already had at least a year's worth of any color I wanted, using those (including any brown hue or mottled combo thereof). It's an interesting development finding out that: Professional aniline leather does not appear to be made with water-based aniline dyes like bookbinders use, because they repeatedly refer to the "oils in the aniline dyes" soaking into the leather with the soluble pigment. I've noticed aniline dye, aside from being soluble in water, is also soluble in pure alcohol. As long as there's no water in the alcohol, pure alcohol mixes with oils. I'm thinking something like this is how they formulate oil-based aniline dyes (or solvent-based aniline with oils in it). Dissolve it in pure solvent then add to oils. I might be able to try that, too, unless my red dye (which was already made up by me a long time ago) contains any water. If I used pure denatured alcohol like it smells, then I can try making the oily kind of aniline dye which I'm betting won't leech out with water like it can with water-based aniline dye (and why bookbinders buy expensive Hewitt Dye-Fix "Methanamine"). We also have to mitigate the oils we use on bookcovers, too, but I do use them. I'm sure even if I use the water-based aniline dye recipe that by buffing the surface and using a oil/wax conditioner well, there won't be any real problem. I was just really curious why bookbinders insist on using expensive methanamine fixative on leather they aniline dye when no other craft seems to. It's probably because (besides the whole archival thing) they are using water-based aniline dye whereas those who professionally make aniline leather for other uses use a solvent-and-oil based aniline recipe that is less susceptible to water getting on it and causing ruboff. I know waxing and oiling repels water... but I can really go to town on pro aniline leather and water won't make it leech (even though they tell me they use no fixative). Instead, if I hose it down with oil (which they say never to do with aniline leather) maybe it would, since it was formulated that way, but it never rains oil on the side of a car seat. I really appreciate the replies, it furthers my suspicion that it's not a big concern, and I learned about a new colorfast dye for the future and I'm really curious about finding out it Retayne for fabric is chemically anything like the expensive Hewitt Dye-Fix that is the status quo for book binders and conservators.

Wow I did also just find out that there is a total difference in aniline dye formulas. At a tannery (or place where they get the dye) the aniline powder appears to be liquified with solvent that will mix with oils, not water, because it says there are oils in the dye (whereas bookbinders and wood workers use water and sometimes alcohol). If you put oil in water-based aniline dyes like bookbinders make, it would just float on top or emulsify and make a mess. This explains why you can use oily conditioners with neatsfoot and lanolin on new book leather dyed with water-based aniline dye, whereas everyone says "never apply oil" to "aniline leather" like used for auto upholstery. I'm assuming oils would interfere with oil-bearing aniline dye, whereas oils protect water-based aniline dye. This also explains why spilling water on "aniline leather" won't make it leech aniline dye out no matter how much you soak it. They haven't used a methyl-anything fixative... they've made it basically oil-based, instead. At least so it seems, with multiple sources saying "oils soak through the leather along with the soluble pigment" when making "aniline leather". And no one sits there soaking their car seat in oil until a little dye leeches out. But they do accidentally get rained on. It's all making sense now.