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nstarleather

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Posts posted by nstarleather

  8. Common Leather Myths?

    in Leatherwork Conversation

    Posted

    39 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

    Seems there's room for the leather industry to get together and clean up the description of grades in order to help eliminate confusion.  Adopting a global system of standards would go a long way towards helping people understand what they are buying.

    But, people who want to will always be able to find ways to deceive consumers.  That part will never be fixed.

    I agree that getting basic definitions established legally would be great.  Full grain means "x".  Genuine means "y."  One that I go back and forth on is whether leather that's just been embossed with a pattern is full grain (if it hasn't been sanded)...SB Foot considers their embossed leather to be full grain. 

     

    Unfortunately a true grading scale of quality is simply impossible because there are tons of different factors...this isn't something that will have 4 different characteristics that you can pick out to judge quality.  There are dozens of things done at the tannery that will make a leather good or not....then you have you intended use:  I love W & C Bridle leather but I challenge anyone on this site to make me a pair of gloves from it.    Horween's Chromexcel or SB Foots Copper Rough and Tough are great, but a couch made from them would leave your close waxy and stained.  I soft deer skin but it's not going into my heavy work belt...

    There's also the fact that you could have lots of different leathers that are the "same" when it comes to all the descriptive words but that are better or worse depending on the tannery.  Lots of places sell leather that is meant to imitate Horween's Chromexcel and from a descriptive point of view they might be waxy pull up leathers that are combination tanned but they aren't the same  as actual CXL.   A tannery could make a firm tempered veg-tan treated "the same" as W&C Bridle but it wouldn't be...

    It's like how you can "grade" beef, but you can't really grade an entire meal at a restaurant because some many things happen after the beef gets graded that the original grade plays a part but it's not really the most important.  Is it seasoned properly?  Cooked properly?  What's the preferred cooking style, could that change depending on the chef or the customer's mood?  How about  presentation?   There's also what you feel like at a given moment:  I love a fancy meal at a premium place but if I've got to pick it up on my lunch break, I'll have to make another choice.  

    So there are tons of different ways to make a leather great or terrible and full grain or not is just one of those ways. 

     

     

  9. Common Leather Myths?

    in Leatherwork Conversation

    Posted

    4 hours ago, fredk said:

    $10 ? that's cheap. I've seen them in men's fashion shops for as much as £50. Not only card filler but also that plasticky smooth finish. No.1 son was going to buy one at £35 but asked me first about them. I made him a decent belt

    I don't normally make belts but because we're a leather shop in a small town we keep a bunch of Weaver blanks to make belts for locals...I see an Amazing amount of Walmart belts that have failed after barely any use. 

    5 hours ago, Handstitched said:

     

    Leather myths??  Not so much a myth, but more of  a 'beef' that p*sses  me off...."Genuine Leather" labels on belts that often  have cardboard as a filler in between , and they're sold  for $10 ???? get real !!!!!! 

     

    The "genuine leather" one gets me on both sides of the myth...both the idea that the public at large don't understand that "genuine" doesn't actually mean anything in terms of quality and the other side of the coin that "genuine" means a specific low quality leather.  

    There are plenty of companies and crafters who use the word "genuinely" just to mean real...I see it all the time on Reddit:  Some person usually from Eastern Europe or another non-english area posts something they've made that's obviously a very nice hight quality leather and says "I made a genuine leather 'x'" and a bunch of people who don't know better say "but "genuine" is the second worst grade of leather."     You also have Red Wing Heritage using it on nice full grain boots and Alden stamping it on their insoles...

    We also got to get away with the idea the full grain is always good as well...there is a such thing as cheap full grain.  One company that people have commented to me about since I started trying to debunk both genuine and full grain is this one: https://slidebelts.com/collections/belts

    You can see they offer belts in genuine, top grain and full grain leather...do you think someone doing mass production is sourcing from different tanneries and that the full grain is actually the good stuff?  I've read experiences that support that the "full grain" they use doesn't hold up.   If it's super-thin or heavily painted it doesn't matter all that much that it's full grain. 

  10. Common Leather Myths?

    in Leatherwork Conversation

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

    He never got the credit he deserved, due to being a Latino. 

     

    It’s crazy how syndicated television came from a Latino, I’m amazed how much Spanish there was in I Love Lucy, but by the time I was a kid, there was a lot less and like no Cubans on TV.   
    Now you see Spanish more but it’s a recent thing.

    I’m not Latino but my wife is Colombian and I’ve learned the language.

  13. Common Leather Myths?

    in Leatherwork Conversation

    Posted

    2 hours ago, fredk said:

    My main hate is the myth that 'ready rivets' are not strong and will pull apart easily. Not so in my 22 years of experience

    Sewing with a sewing machine is not proper leather working/crafting & sewing machine sewing is not as good as hand sewing. Proper hand sewing can only be done using a hog's bristle

    Brass buckles (or other brass hardware) will make the leather rot

    If I/you/we make a historical replica very neat and tidy, with good sewing, neat edges, good carving or stamping, its not 'real' - the ancients, the Greeks, Romans, Corinthians, Chinese, Mongolians, Vikings, Persians, Medieval Europeans, Victorian age Europeans & Americans . . . . . .  never made things as good as that, they didn't know how to

    Chrome tanned leather will cause cancer to anyone who uses a lot of it, either as a leather crafter or a wearer

    Chrome tanned leather takes hundreds of years to decompose and it pollutes the environment with heavy metals (chromium)

    Those all great and I’ve heard versions of them all.  I especially think that one about historical stuff is a good one…anyone who have been to a museum know how many things form days long past were made with a real artistry and attention to detail…just because leather doesn’t age as well as metal and jewels doesn’t mean the work wasn’t done with great care.

  14. Common Leather Myths?

    in Leatherwork Conversation

    Posted

    25 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

    But, and there's always a but.  I found the following article which distinguishes between how the term "genuine leather" is viewed in the U.K.

    GENUINE vs. FULL GRAIN?

    As a British company, we find ‘genuine leather’ often gets lost in translation between the UK and the USA. In the States, ‘genuine’ refers to leather that undergoes some or several layers of extra treatment. Found beneath the surface of the top, full-grain outer hide, this layer is typically split apart and bound together to mimic the properties of high quality leather. However, this layer has less memory and doesn’t hold its shape so well. So, although ‘genuine leather’ derives from the same cow hide as full-grain and is still technically real leather, it’s known to be cheaper quality.

    However, in the UK, the terms ‘genuine’ and ‘full-grain’ are interchangeable. They both refer to the same top quality level of leather, so whilst ‘genuine leather’ has become common code for ‘cheap’ across the pond, it means the total opposite here in Britain.

    For us, full-grain and genuine leather both represent the entire top grain layer. Known to be the strongest part of the animal’s hide, this leather is durable and holds its shape. Full-grain leather is also typically left in a natural state – which means branding, scars and any imperfections from the animal’s hide often show up. These blemishes affect the final appearance and even the desirability of the product, so companies will often reject sub-quality hide in favour of blemish-free stock. This factors into the final cost of the product, which explains why a smooth, flawless, full-grain leather item is generally the most expensive to invest in.

     

    Edit: The quote above is from The British Belt Company

    So once again the Brits got it right… 

    In the USA the negative connotation has a lot to do with a viral video that said as much and a corresponding “Leather 101” that was posted on the video author’s site.  That 101 got copy/pasted into tons of other fashion blogs and here we are today.

    Back in the day genuine was a positive.  Here’s a blog post I did some years back:

    https://nstarleather.wordpress.com/2017/05/16/genuine-leather-has-become-a-4-letter-word/

  15. Common Leather Myths?

    in Leatherwork Conversation

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

    Don't really have any favorites, but I guess the one I see abused the most is when something is advertised as genuine leather.  Of course it may be, they aren't lying, but they are taking advantage (to a degree) of the public's lack of knowledge.  At least it seems that way to me.

     

    This is a pretty good description from businessinsider.com...

    Genuine leather

    Genuine leather doesn't just mean that the product is made of real leather (which it is), but it also means it is the lowest quality of all products made out of real leather. Basically, you should read it as: "At least it's genuine leather."

    Genuine leather generally doesn't last as long or look as nice as higher-quality leather. You'll typically find it in belts from mall stores, shoes from lower-priced department stores, and bags or other goods in the lower price range.

    Goods marked as genuine leather will be several layers of low-quality leather bonded together with glue and then painted to look uniform. It's made from what is left over when the other, higher grades are stripped away for pricier projects.

    While I agree that companies will trick people, they can do it with "full grain" as well...full grain just means it's not been sanded...were you to toss out all other "quality factors" you can make full grain pretty cheaply, which is why you'll see it more an more in mass produced goods. 

    Genuine as a low quality leather is actually a myth too...or at least a huge over simplification. 

     

     The idea that "genuine" is some specific low grade/quality/tier is actually my least favorite myth because it's so common and even people who should know get tricked because it's repeated so much. 

     

    So NO, not everything marked Genuine will be layers of low quality leather...yes sometimes that's the case but it's not specifically what "genuine" means.  The "leather" they describe in that article is actually called a "finished split".

     

      Both Horween and SB Foot say it just means "real" :

    https://www.thetanneryrow.com/leather101/2016/9/8/moksha-sample-blog-post-01

    https://imgur.com/a/Tdtbjge

    Call up a tannery, you can't buy anything just called "genuine leather"...they'll give you a blank confused stare. 

  17. Common Leather Myths?

    in Leatherwork Conversation

    Posted

    Hi folks, posted this over one Reddit and it was fun to hear what people have heard over the years from customers or even other leatherworkers...let's talk misconceptions and myths common to our craft!

     

    I'm sure over the years a lot of us have gotten customers who will insist on something they've heard on the internet about a particular type of leather is true, insisting that I do or don't use a specific type of leather because of something they've read.

    Here are a few that I hear frequently some are very egregious, others just assumptions that are more or less harmless:

    • Full grain leather is the full thickness of the original hide. (probably the most demonstrably false of the bunch).

    • Genuine is a specific kind of (low quality) leather

    • Leather that has a light edge isn't fully tanned

    • "x" type of leather is the best (veg-tan, full grain, bridle, CXL, etc...we all know there are a lot of good leathers)

    • All veg tan is natural veg (not that people say it but they get confused if I show them a "normal" leather like Essex or Dublin that happens to be veg).

    Anyway those are a few I've heard...one bonus one I heard just this week: "You wouldn't want to use veg-tan for a backpack because it will bleed color"...

    Obviously some of these have a grain of truth that got exaggerated.

    Which ones have you heard that bother you?

  18. Hot Foil VS Hydraulic Press for volume stamping

    in Leather Machinery

    Posted

    16 hours ago, Workinman said:

    Thank you all so much for taking the time to offer such detailed suggestions !!!  I really appreciate it !

    Since the die and leather piece are mobile (not fixed to the press), I think the suggestion Mike Batson offered re creating a jig.  The way Mike described creating the jig will work for me because each of dies are square and can be set up using a "poster child" of each image as Mike described.

    As for the pressure issue, since my press is hydraulic (not pneumatic), I will look in to adding a pressure gage.  If that isn't possible, I will upgrade my press to a pneumatic press- which does come with a pressure gage.

    A guy at the local Tandy store also suggested that I look at the dies to see if they are warped, since I am using a 12 ton press.  He thought my dies might need to be a little thicker to press more evenly (just throwing this out there if case any of you encounter another another newbie like me :)

    Thanks again everyone !!!!

    I can't think of a perfect way to be consistent with pressure but you could always come up with a "ideal" pressure and make a mark on the handle and on one the press that you line up so you know how far to pull down, then you're getting some consistency.  

  19. Hot Foil VS Hydraulic Press for volume stamping

    in Leather Machinery

    Posted

    14 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

    Just to add a little to Mike's advice above. A good embossing machine will allow you to adjust up and down for the various thicknesses to get just the depth of impression you want. Some of the manual clicker presses will also do this as well as come in handy if you want to do some clicking or wet moulding as well. This picture below shows one of my embossing machines which has the advantage of a sliding table and with this I am able to position many different cardboard cut out shapes to simply screw down and position between different jobs. It generally takes about 1 minute to change the cardboard to a different shape piece and the stamping takes just a few seconds for each piece.

    DSC07968_resize.JPGDSC07964_resize.JPG

    This is another one I use that has a guide that can be adjusted to act as a stopper and that is able to be set back or forward on the table. With it I often just use a square shaped magnet on one side of the guide to set the stamp position left +right.

    DSC07977_resize.JPG

    Yes this is exactly how my machines work and it's great.  I was assuming that OP doesn't have the ability to attach the die to the press...if he does, that totally changes the game.  Another "quick and dirty" way to do it if you don't need super-precise stamping is just to "nest" the die into one that you've already stamped with the machine, tape the item down and then just put the next ones right on top aligned with the edges...it's less accurate but still close...works great with items like pouches that are going to be turned and the exact placement won't mater if it's off by 1mm or less. 

  20. Hot Foil VS Hydraulic Press for volume stamping

    in Leather Machinery

    Posted

    Ok I’m going to assume you don’t have a way to attach the die to the press?  If you do then I have two really easy ways to create a setup…because that’s what you do with a heat press.

    But if both your item and your die are mobile from the pressure you can do what I do when I use the clicker to emboss. I’ll give you an example using circles for simplicity:

    Lets say you have 4” round circle and you have to stamp a 2.5” circle in the center.

    First take some heavy card stock or even leather and cut the 4” circle.  Then set a perfectly stamped coaster (a poster child)in the hole you just cut out.  Next, cut into another piece of poster board a hole the length and width of the design you’re stamping…in our example a 2.50” circle.   Slide the top piece with the smaller hole over the other piece where you’ve set the poster child piece until you see the design perfectly framed by the top piece.  Hold the placement tight and tape or glue the two pieces together.

    Now you have a jig that will hold the leather in the bottom and allow you to perfectly seat the die on top.  
    Put your item in the bottom die on top, press, rinse and repeat.

  22. My biography and Reviews from the experts

    in Member Gallery

    Posted

    I'd agree with a lot of people's comments here, that it comes across as too general.  Even if people don't understand the details of a process, explaining those details really helps sell.    I'd say things like "careful refinishing with "x" and "x" to restore and beautify...

    The best thing you could possibly do is before and after pictures.  Showing what is, in essence looks like a brand new jacket doesn't highlight your skills and people may doubt that it's legit.  

    I'd also change your verbiage to first person unless you're working for someone else as part of their business.  

    If your business is mainly you, there's nothing wrong with saying, "I've worked restoring and refinishing leather for 'x' years and over that time I've developed the knowledge and skills to make leather goods look as good as new." 

    Also, and please excuse me if I'm incorrect, it looks like you're a native Spanish speaker?   if you want some help translating exactly what you're trying to say feel free to do it in Spanish and I can put it as an English speaker would...there are lots of things that although "technically correct" in terms of language, they aren't how people would actually say them.  It happens to me with Spanish all the time with refranes or other sayings that my wife goes..."It's not wrong, but a native Spanish speaker wouldn't say it that way."

     

     

  23. Help Identifying this leather

    in Exotics, Reptiles, Furs and others

    Posted

    35 minutes ago, djd1230 said:

    If you're referring to the hole in the second picture - at around the 4.5" measurement - that is just a hole in the material for a control knob to pass thru.

    I thought shark looked similar also.....

    Bison or shark?  How could two such different animals have skin that looks similar!

    Dennis

    Shark looks a lot like that too texture-wise.  Any leather can be split to be thin…knowing the approximate size might help too.

    google both bison, water Buffalo and shark then compare pictures.

  25. Interested in Writing About Leathercraft?

    in Marketing and Advertising

    Posted · Edited by nstarleather

    19 hours ago, ClassicCrafter said:

    Hey all, I am working on a project that involves creating helpful online pieces about leathercraft and looking for someone that is US-based that would be interested in writing for it. The paid pieces are on varying topics I can provide as we go. Writing experience isn't a huge factor, moreso having a genuine interest in the craft and an honest desire to share that interest in helping others.

    Let me know if you'd like to chat, we can explore the idea more. Also if you know of someone that might be interested, please put us in touch.

    Hi happy to share a bit if you'd like...my passion is for busting some of the common "leather myths" out there.  I don't get much time to write but I do enjoy it.  check out my blog for some of what I've done.

    https://nstarleather.wordpress.com/

    If you want something for your site hit me up: nstarleather@shtc.net

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