Thread problem, any thoughts helpful

[mooreleatherworking]

When the leather is not protected, water gets in there and increases the size of the hole. The thread could not be waxed enough. Dirt and junk gets in there and rots. The dye is probably oil based so the wear would be from abrasion.

[srtolly]

3 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

found this info, I'm assuming it was a cotton blend at least.

https://leathermilk.com/leather-conditioner-rot-stitching

 

 

Cotton Threads

Cotton is an organic thread. The thread's quality is actually quite good on its own - cotton is fairly durable, and is very cheap. Next to nylon, it's among the most common materials used for threads. Unfortunately, cotton has some weaknesses. Cotton absorbs water and conditioner, takes longer to dry, has food value for bacteria, and can degrade outdoors. This fosters an ideal environment for rot potential, especially when the cotton stitching. This problem can be mitigated, somewhat, when the stitching is made from waxed cotton. This type of thread has natural resistance against water and oils, and will repel fluids well. Although this thread will likely last much longer than other cotton threads, it can still degrade under weather and sunlight. Cotton is particularly vulnerable outdoors, and as such, it is scarcely used to make leather products.

There's some pretty good information there. I like when companies actually put useful info out while promoting their products, I'll have to give them a try (maybe not on one of these vintage rigs yet). When I re-stitch these holsters I try to keep everything period correct as not to affect the value any more than necessary, but I do wax the cotton thread it replace it with.

[srtolly]

1 hour ago, TomE said:

I’ve seen this wear pattern on stirrup leathers with rotted linen thread. The thread on the surface is lost but the holes contain plugs of thread. Haven’t seen it turn black but I haven’t worked on pieces that were recolored. 

I'm sure the black is from the dye. Some of the spots the thread is gone from are wear areas while some are not, just an odd situation I haven't come across in dozens of these holsters I've worked on.

[srtolly]

1 hour ago, mooreleatherworking said:

The thread is not the problem

Just clean it with saddle soap, add new thread that is larger diameter (make sure to wax it), and add a water barrier. 

This is an 88 year old WW2 German holster that belongs to a collector, I need to keep my repairs as authentic as possible. I will be cleaning it with a saddle soap, while it's wet I can massage the leather a bit to decrease the size of the holes where needed. There are two different size threads on these holsters but I do wax them before stitching. No water barrier to speak of, I finish with Connolly's Hide Care which has Lanolin and Bees Wax in it, then it goes in a linen bag before being shipped back to my customer.

[srtolly]

1 hour ago, mooreleatherworking said:

When the leather is not protected, water gets in there and increases the size of the hole. The thread could not be waxed enough. Dirt and junk gets in there and rots. The dye is probably oil based so the wear would be from abrasion.

With many of the holsters I work on you can see and feel the dirt between the layers of leather that abraded the thread causing it to break.

[mooreleatherworking]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:51 AM, srtolly said:

With many of the holsters I work on you can see and feel the dirt between the layers of leather that abraded the thread causing it to break.

The abrasion I'm referring is to about this "I had thought that someone may have tried to remove the black dye since the top of the holster looks like that could have been the case, but most likely from a waist coat rubbing on it.". We are both thinking the same thing.

When I say "water barrier" I am referring to any finishing oil or wax that acts as a protective shield or barrier between the leather and water or moisture.