stitching grooves

[rsg3]

Hello folks, my question is, when hand stitching two pieces of leather together, i put a stitching groove on the front side of the piece but am i supposed to use a groove on the back side? I have done this in the past but have had problems keeping the holes on the back side in the groove. Any advice would be appreciated.

[bruce johnson]

I am a groover. I groove front and back. One of the skills to be learned in handsewing is to make the front nice and even. Everything in a line, even spacing, and same angle awl holes. Then when you can make the back the same, the next level has been achieved. With good handsewing you shouldn't be able to tell the front from the back. It takes a lot of practice, riding that stitching horse and building muscle memory. Go slow, and really concentrate on even spacing and awl angles on the front. Run a wheel in the backside groove and make each hole come out in the dimple back there too. After a while you won't need to do that anymore. It ain't a race. Go slow, and gradually a rythm will come. Speed follows that. The Stohlman book on handsewing is the best instruction here.

The best advice for keeping the awl coming out in the groove in back is to have the piece held solidly. I think a stitching horse is necessary if you are going to do much, and especially fine work. Keeping the groove close the jaws will minimize deflection. Using a sharp blade is paramount. There is only one blade I know of that comes ready to use, and that is from Bob Douglas. The others need reshaping, honing and polishing for me. I don't know who all is making good horses now. I have one that I think Ken Allen in NM made, but haven't heard of him for a while. An old Irish harnessmaker spent an afternoon with me several years ago. He made himself "ta home" and took a rasp to my horse's jaws to thin and taper them and make them more user friendly. He took my bad awls and made darts from them. He then whipped off 12 to the inch stitching by eye. I saw some good stitching horses at Sheridan Leather Outfitters a couple months ago that someone locally was making. Not sure who else is doing them right now.

[rsg3]

thank you for your advice, it would be nice to have someone nearby that knows what they are doing, so i could look at their work and learn first hand. I learn better from seeing and doing than reading, unfortunately leatherworkers seem hard to find in my area. Thanks again

[gtwister09]

Bruce,

Ken is no longer making stitching horses. He mainly made harness makers stitching horses and not saddlemaker's stitching horses. Ken's jaws were generally too thick at the top and didn't allow you the ability to truly do fine stitching. The jaws should be worked down so that you can get your knuckles in close to the work.

Saddlemaker's stitching horses will have the jaw closing mechanism below the seat whereas the harness maker's stitching horse will have the jaw closing mechanism above the seat. There are a few variations of the saddlemaker's stitching horse including one that has a slot cut in the front of the seat in order to allow larger items to be stitched. Saddlemaker's stitching horses usually have 16-18" of clearance in them. By contrast, the harness maker's stitching horses have less jaw space due to the strap going through the jaws to tighten them. These will limit you as to the size of the projects you can put in them. If it's straps or billfolds you stitch, these will work fine, but larger items will not fit (about 6-8" clearance).

I am including an example of stitching horse jaw profiles and what they should look like from bad (absolutely not to be purchased) to best profile.

Regards,

Ben

P.S. I am a groover front and back except for very light leather and then I use a creaser to create a fake stitching channel.

[bcurrier]

P.S. I am a groover front and back except for very light leather and then I use a creaser to create a fake stitching channel.

If it recesses the stitches, what's fake about it?

Bill

[gtwister09]

Semantics...but there is no actual groove cut into the leather only a crease. (Kind of like how you say potato or tomato)

Regards,

Ben

[tonyc1]

Bruce,

Ken is no longer making stitching horses. He mainly made harness makers stitching horses and not saddlemaker's stitching horses. Ken's jaws were generally too thick at the top and didn't allow you the ability to truly do fine stitching. The jaws should be worked down so that you can get your knuckles in close to the work.

Saddlemaker's stitching horses will have the jaw closing mechanism below the seat whereas the harness maker's stitching horse will have the jaw closing mechanism above the seat. There are a few variations of the saddlemaker's stitching horse including one that has a slot cut in the front of the seat in order to allow larger items to be stitched. Saddlemaker's stitching horses usually have 16-18" of clearance in them. By contrast, the harness maker's stitching horses have less jaw space due to the strap going through the jaws to tighten them. These will limit you as to the size of the projects you can put in them. If it's straps or billfolds you stitch, these will work fine, but larger items will not fit (about 6-8" clearance).

I am including an example of stitching horse jaw profiles and what they should look like from bad (absolutely not to be purchased) to best profile.

Regards,

Ben

P.S. I am a groover front and back except for very light leather and then I use a creaser to create a fake stitching channel.

You have forgotten to give us the examples of profiles.

[bcurrier]

Semantics...but there is no actual groove cut into the leather only a crease. (Kind of like how you say potato or tomato)

I like the creased stitch better. Cutting a groove on the grain side weakens it. Conversely, creasing it (compressing it) strengthens it. That said, the difference doesn't amount to a hill of beans on most applications.

[gtwister09]

You have forgotten to give us the examples of profiles.

Hmmmm...... Here it is.

On another note concerning the crease versus cut groove. As bcurrier stated, the difference doesn't amount to a hill of beans on most applications. However here's some food for thought. If you use that logic no carving that cuts the grain should ever be done on a piece of leather namely swivel knife cuts. Just something to think about. I know that I heard some old saddlemakers give the same logic in choosing used saddles with basket stamping or ones with floral caving. This is one of those function things and many are very strongly opinionated about the subject.

Regards,

Ben

[Kevin]

gtwister, do you happen to have a diagram or good picture of the mechanism for a saddler's stitching horse? I've seen a couple of pictures of them, but couldn't make out how they work. I would love to make one. Sorry, this has nothing to do with stitch grooving. Thanks, Kevin

[Rawhide]

Kevin,

If you get the book "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" there is a diagram that shows you how to make one to fit on a kitchen chair. To make it a stand alone horse, all you would need to do is add two back legs and you're done.

Marlon

[Kevin]

Marlon, Thanks, I'll have to check that out, Kevin

[bcurrier]

... If you use that logic no carving that cuts the grain should ever be done on a piece of leather namely swivel knife cuts. ... some old saddlemakers give the same logic in choosing used saddles with basket stamping or ones with floral caving. ...

I guess if there's a difference, it's with edge stitching. You do see leather goods from time-to-time - usually older and dry - with bits of leather missing between the stitch and edge. Grooving makes it a bit easier to tear a piece off.

Bill