Tension nightmare, please help

[Narf]

Hi again

I am still trying to get this singer 211G sewing but am closer than ever now but the tension so far is being a giant PITA.

I have never worked with a machine with this type of tension unit nor this type of bobbin case but from looking at videos and the manual I think I have it threaded correctly. To try and get rid of as many variables as possible I have fitted a brand new needle as per the manual, 135x17 needle as I am currently working with just upholstery cloth and not leather yet. I am using brand new spools of V92 sunfast with a 120 needle. I have also tried v69 thread with a 110 needle with same issues.

The bobbin seems to be maxed out on tension and is still very loose, I cannot do the drop test with this type of case but it seems about the same tension as my other machines. I have taken the spring off and cleaned fluff from under it but cannot get the screws out to get the case off for a good look and don’t want to chew the screws.

the top tension is barely compressing the spring and still causing the bobbin thread to be pulled up to the top.

when I back off the disks to nothing it shows the top thread on the bottom but there is no looping as I would expect with the least possible tension.

* sorry I hit submit accidentally and prematurely on the iPad *

Edited August 20, 2023 by Narf

[Narf]

The hook timing seems good 

I guess my question is is it usual for the spring to have barely any tension what so ever and still be too tight or do I have an issue with the bottom tension that seems to already be maxed out? When messing with the tension on the take up spring I am getting much looser tension on top with top thread showing on bottom so I can’t help but think I am doing something wrong on top?

Thanks

 

[chuck123wapati]

just looking at the top pic it appears your tension issue is in the three holes in that piece of metal you have run your thread through, it is tight even before it reaches the tension discs. Are you sure it is threaded right? I would try it running through just one of the holes.

[Wizcrafts]

Move the check spring disk to the right to center the screw in the curved slot. This gives it more slack. You have it on the tightest setting now.

[Narf]

6 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

just looking at the top pic it appears your tension issue is in the three holes in that piece of metal you have run your thread through, it is tight even before it reaches the tension discs. Are you sure it is threaded right? I would try it running through just one of the holes.

I have it threaded through all 3 holes as described in the manual with the hole piece in the position in the manual but I have seen other thread it differently. I’ll try it missing the middle hole and see if it makes a difference. Thanks.

4 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Move the check spring disk to the right to center the screw in the curved slot. This gives it more slack. You have it on the tightest setting now.

I have done as you suggested and it has helped a bit but I’m still putting very little push on the spring so at the very end of the lightest tension ability top end. If I literally back it off so the spring is slack I get loose loops up top and thread showing on bottom and by adjusting literally less than a mm at a time it then starts pulling the thread up top. Is it normal to need such tiny adjustments? My other machines I adjust 1/4 - 1/2 turns at a time.

I can’t help but feel it’s this tension spring as even now with your mentioned adjustments if I physically hold the check spring up off the thread it loosens the top tension off and then threads show on bottom.

thanks.

 

[Wizcrafts]

8 hours ago, Narf said:

I can’t help but feel it’s this tension spring as even now with your mentioned adjustments if I physically hold the check spring up off the thread it loosens the top tension off and then threads show on bottom.

Maybe the tension on the check spring is too strong. Loosen the set screw under the check spring housing, on the inside of the body. This lets you rotate the shaft to get more or less spring tension. Turning it ccw backs off the tension. Set it for less tension and lock down the set screw. The spring only needs enough tension to hold the thread taut during the end of the take-up cycle until the spring stops against the adjustable stop bracket. It should stop soon after the needle penetrates the work.

[Narf]

13 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Maybe the tension on the check spring is too strong

I have the tension of the spring set just enough for it to be able to return to the stop. If I hold the thread and pull with the discs open it’s very little tension from the spring and the tension seems fine up until the take up lever.

Needle down

needle up

 

I have tried threading with only 2 holes and how other people have done it that I’ve seen but it made no difference so returned to how the manual says to do it.

I think I may have found the issue though, the take up lever has a fairly deep trough worn into it that the thread sits in. Do you think this is enough to cause the tension issue? I’m thinking it may pinch the thread when the take up lever pulls up which is what is pulling the bobbin thread up

I’m thinking I can maybe fill the trough with braze and re-grind the hole to make it smooth if this is the issue. I’ve never seen such a groove worn into a take up before

your help is much appreciated.

[Wizcrafts]

Definitely, either repair or replace the take-up lever. I had problems on one of my patchers where it formed loops on top. After replacing the take-up lever and one internal spring, the problem went away.

[Narf]

4 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

either repair or replace the take-up lever

Wait for this to fully cure and then polish it back and that should at least allow me to see if it solves the problem, I can get the new arm and replace it then. I wonder what they were running through there to saw such a groove in it though. Fingers crossed this is the issue.

[Wepster]

Perhaps they used Kevlar thread?

[Narf]

17 hours ago, Wepster said:

Perhaps they used Kevlar thread?

Possibly, it must have been pretty abrasive whatever it was.

[Northmount]

1 hour ago, Narf said:

Possibly, it must have been pretty abrasive whatever it was.

Check your bobbin and tension plates as well for grooves.

[DennisT]

The tab on the bobbin case needs to be in the notch of the feed dog.  Raise feed dog enough to rotate into position.

Edited August 23, 2023 by DennisT
add pic

[Narf]

The fix on the take up lever is working well, the tension is now consistent up to the needle like with my other machines and I had to tighten the tension way more than before as my issue for the first time became loops on the bottom. However something hunky is still going on and it’s the bottom tension I think as although I know bottom tension is light, it’s virtually non existent.

8 hours ago, Northmount said:

Check your bobbin and tension plates as well for grooves.

good call! There is indeed grooves on the thread guides but not very deep so I could just sand them out and I took the spring off the the bobbin and there is a groove which won’t be helping.

Thankfully the casing looks ok so I will just replace the spring and screws

I have no idea what this machine was running but it has very little slop on the internals so I’m thinking it was just a very abrasive thread. Hopefully replacing the spring wills finally solve the issue. 
 

5 hours ago, DennisT said:

The tab on the bobbin case needs to be in the notch of the feed dog

When I put the needle plate on I do make sure the notch is in there, I had spun the casing to get to the spring in that photo I think, thanks.

thanks for all your help guys I really appreciate it.

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, Narf said:

When I put the needle plate on I do make sure the notch is in there

Yes. Make sure that you install the needle/throat plate with the cutout facing the shuttle/bobbin case. Before you fully tighten the two screws, place the bobbin case tab under the detente, then tighten down the fore and aft screws.

[Narf]

Just an update, sorting the spring and thus sorting the bobbin tension has solved the issue. I now have a pretty good stitch

many thanks all