New to leather work

[CADman69]

Good day everyone,

I am brand new to this forum and even newer to leather crafting.  I just bought a cheap beginners tool set, just to see if this is something I am going to enjoy or not.  Right now I am just learning how to hand stitch.

My first question (and I am sure there will be many more in the future) is this,  is there a secret formula to determine the correct needle size to use.  I used the stitching punch that came with the kit but when I go to stitch, I literally have to put everything I have into it just to get the dam needle through the hole.  I am looking at possible buying a better punch but before I shell out the cash, just looking for insight.

Before someone asks, the hole punch that came with the set only has 4mm stamped on it and the needle that came with it is pretty thick in diameter (which I am assuming is part of the issue I am having).

I hope this isn't too stupid of a question but like I said, this is 100% new to me and I have no idea where to start, just winging at this time.

[fredk]

20 minutes ago, CADman69 said:

I hope this isn't too stupid of a question but like I said, this is 100% new to me and I have no idea where to start, just winging at this time.

No questions are stoopid

20 minutes ago, CADman69 said:

Before someone asks, the hole punch that came with the set only has 4mm stamped on it and the needle that came with it is pretty thick in diameter (which I am assuming is part of the issue I am having).

The 4mm means that the holes it makes are 4mm apart

21 minutes ago, CADman69 said:

 I am looking at possible buying a better punch but before I shell out the cash, just looking for insight.

Sharpen and polish the teeth on the punch first. That will make a big difference

22 minutes ago, CADman69 said:

 is there a secret formula to determine the correct needle size to use.  

yes there is. you need to match your needle to the thickness of your thread and to the hole in the leather. eg. when I use 0.8mm or 1mm thick thread I use a needle 1.02 to 1.34 mm diameter, and that goes through a 2mm punched hole.  Maybe your sewing hole punch isn't making good holes, see above. I use digital calipers to measure the diameter of my needles as I've found, a. wrong sized needles in a pack, b. cheap needles vary in size, c. I'm careless and get loose ones mixed up, d. I've found the size of needles in a pack are sometimes not always consistent

Buy a sewing awl, with a diamond shaped blade. Use it to open up your sewing holes a bit more

[CADman69]

Awesome, thanks for getting back to me. I never took inconsideration the thread thickness.  I will put that info to good use. Much appreciated.

[purplefox66]

Check out Nigel armitage on YouTube 

[SUP]

Weaver Leather Supply has a lot of information on its site.

 Check this from them: The Leather Element: Thread, Needles & Chisels - YouTube

 

[Hags]

Welcome to the addiction! I agree with all of the above. We've all been there.

[Burkhardt]

You didn't say if they were pricking irons, diamond hole or chisel irons. Unless they are chisels which I doubt, the irons pierce a hole and for the most part don't leave a big hole by design so the stitch/thread is tight in the hole and not loose. Glue it up, punch the holes and run a awl through to temporarily make/stretch the hole bigger to get the needle through. 

[zuludog]

Let's start with the basics first

I assume you have sewn fabric with typical pointed needles. You might not have realised, but the needle does two jobs - it pierces the fabric, and it carries the thread through the resulting hole

You can't do that with leather, as it is too thick & tough, so you first make the holes with bigger, stronger tools, then pass the thread with needles that have blunt, rounded tips so they don't snag on the sides of the hole

You can make the holes with special chisels, but there are two similar but different types, and that leads to a lot of confusion -

PRICKING IRONS have short prongs which mark the position of the holes, but they are not intended to penetrate all the way through the leather. Instead, they make shallow indentations, then you follow up with a saddler's awl, aka diamond awl, to complete the hole. 

STITCHING CHISELS have longer prongs, and they are intended to both mark and penetrate the leather

You need practice & experience to use a pricking iron & awl neatly & consistently, so most people, especially beginners & hobbyists use stitching chisels

So the first thing to check is that you actually have stitching chisels. Even so, the prongs are typically only about 7mm long, so you might have to complete the hole with an awl if the combined thickness of your leather is too thick.

When you have made a hole, you shouldn't have much difficulty sewing with just your finger strength. The hole should be big enough for the needle to pass through with only a slight amount of drag or friction, but not so big that the needle is liable to fall out. 

The holes made by chisels & awls are in fact slits which will close up around the thread to produce a neat finish. Punches actually remove material so you rely on the thread being thick enough to fill &  seal the hole, which is why you mostly sew with awls & chisels

Watch YouTube videos on making various items - belts, wallets, knife sheaths, and so on, and on saddle stitch you'll see how other people do things.  

There are several videos on leather tools for beginners, also on choice of thread, saddle stitch, and other techniques, and making up items. These channels are good, but there are many others - JH Leather, IanAtkinson/Leodis Leather, Nigel Armitage, Corter Leather

You can polish & sharpen the prongs of stitching chisels with needle files and fine abrasive paper, When you buy a diamond awl you will probably need to sharpen & polish the blade, it should go through the leather with hardly any effort or distorting the leather, you'll see that on videos of them in use. There are videos about sharpening awls 

For thin leather like wallets I use 0,45mm diameter thread and John James Saddler's Harness Needles item code L3912 size 004

For most leatherwork with say 2 to 4mm thick leather I use 0,6mm thread and John James Saddler's Harness Needles item code L3912 size 002

For 0,8mm and thicker thread I use Tandy Stitching Chisels 10 pack item code 1195 - 00

None of these needles are very thick, they are typically about 1mm dia, though the exact size will be in the specification. Watch videos of saddle stitching and you'll see the sort of size & scale

That's my choice, you'll probably find that other people have their own choices & variations

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by zuludog

[zuludog]

Have a look at this video, especially from about 9 mins; you can see that he sews  & uses the needles with hardly any effort. there are of course many other videos

 

[MtlBiker]

7 hours ago, zuludog said:

Let's start with the basics first

I assume you have sewn fabric with typical pointed needles. You might not have realised, but the needle does two jobs - it pierces the fabric, and it carries the thread through the resulting hole

You can't do that with leather, as it is too thick & tough, so you first make the holes with bigger, stronger tools, then pass the thread with needles that have blunt, rounded tips so they don't snag on the sides of the hole

You can make the holes with special chisels, but there are two similar but different types, and that leads to a lot of confusion -

PRICKING IRONS have short prongs which mark the position of the holes, but they are not intended to penetrate all the way through the leather. Instead, they make shallow indentations, then you follow up with a saddler's awl, aka diamond awl, to complete the hole. 

STITCHING CHISELS have longer prongs, and they are intended to both mark and penetrate the leather

You need practice & experience to use a pricking iron & awl neatly & consistently, so most people, especially beginners & hobbyists use stitching chisels

So the first thing to check is that you actually have stitching chisels. Even so, the prongs are typically only about 7mm long, so you might have to complete the hole with an awl if the combined thickness of your leather is too thick.

When you have made a hole, you shouldn't have much difficulty sewing with just your finger strength. The hole should be big enough for the needle to pass through with only a slight amount of drag or friction, but not so big that the needle is liable to fall out. 

The holes made by chisels & awls are in fact slits which will close up around the thread to produce a neat finish. Punches actually remove material so you rely on the thread being thick enough to fill &  seal the hole, which is why you mostly sew with awls & chisels

Watch YouTube videos on making various items - belts, wallets, knife sheaths, and so on, and on saddle stitch you'll see how other people do things.  

There are several videos on leather tools for beginners, also on choice of thread, saddle stitch, and other techniques, and making up items. These channels are good, but there are many others - JH Leather, IanAtkinson/Leodis Leather, Nigel Armitage, Corter Leather

You can polish & sharpen the prongs of stitching chisels with needle files and fine abrasive paper, When you buy a diamond awl you will probably need to sharpen & polish the blade, it should go through the leather with hardly any effort or distorting the leather, you'll see that on videos of them in use. There are videos about sharpening awls 

For thin leather like wallets I use 0,45mm diameter thread and John James Saddler's Harness Needles item code L3912 size 004

For most leatherwork with say 2 to 4mm thick leather I use 0,6mm thread and John James Saddler's Harness Needles item code L3912 size 002

For 0,8mm and thicker thread I use Tandy Stitching Chisels 10 pack item code 1195 - 00

None of these needles are very thick, they are typically about 1mm dia, though the exact size will be in the specification. Watch videos of saddle stitching and you'll see the sort of size & scale

That's my choice, you'll probably find that other people have their own choices & variations

 

I wish there was a "Like" button here because your reply is excellent and would certainly deserve it.

With the exception that the Tandy code you mention is for NEEDLES (which you certainly meant to say) and not Chisels. 

 

[zuludog]

8 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

With the exception that the Tandy code you mention is for NEEDLES (which you certainly meant to say) and not Chisels. 

Ooops! .... yes ..... sorry ...... that was a slip of the keyboard

 

 

[AussieTanker]

21 hours ago, zuludog said:

Let's start with the basics first

Extremely helpful.  Thank you for taking the time to write it all up.  There is so much useful info on this site from so many experienced artisans it's wonderful.

Edited August 27, 2023 by AussieTanker

[Handstitched]

On 8/26/2023 at 4:44 AM, CADman69 said:

I hope this isn't too stupid of a question but like I said, this is 100% new to me and I have no idea where to start, just winging at this time.

Firstly, welcome to the addictive  world of leather, where there is no cure    Theres no such thing as a stupid question, we all had to start somewhere .  That ' stupid' question may save you time , money and frustration .  While we all use similar or same methods to making projects etc.  there  are no ' rulz'  as such to working with leather , everyone may have  their own way of doing things , its the end result that counts . But  most importantly>>>>> Have fun 

HS

[CADman69]

On 8/26/2023 at 10:33 AM, MtlBiker said:

I wish there was a "Like" button here because your reply is excellent and would certainly deserve it.

With the exception that the Tandy code you mention is for NEEDLES (which you certainly meant to say) and not Chisels. 

 

I agree, I wish there was a like button. I can't believe the responses I received on this. I can't say thank you enough to everyone who took the time to reply 

I am still just practice the basics. Threading the needle, locking the thread in and pricking holes and stitching.  

It will be a while before I attempt to actually make something because I want to be good at the basics so I do not get frustrated and loose interest in this craft 

[zuludog]

Just my opinion but ...... I think you should try to make something as soon as you can, even if it's something simple like a key ring or a basic card holder or simple sheaths/slip covers for your knives and stitching chisels, there are  several videos. These are simple enough to learn as you make. Or make your own pattern/mock up from card or thick paper

Making these small projects will show you most of the techniques used in leather work - drawing out a pattern, cutting out the leather, making the stitching holes, saddle stitch, edge finishing, gluing up, threading a needle, waxing the thread, treating/greasing the finished article, and possibly dyeing leather and using an awl. 

To thread a needle cut the thread on a slant or taper/feather it with a knife on a board, then wax it, again there are videos

I started out locking the thread as shown in many videos, but then I thought - Why? I don't do that when I sew fabric. So for several years now I just fold over the thread and it works well enough - I do wax the thread though.

Edited August 30, 2023 by zuludog