Is there a difference between glycerine, yellow and white saddle soap?

[pete]

Been carving for years and have heard many times to make sure to use WHITE saddle soap for edging/burnishing. I've always used a big glycerine bar.

Is there a difference between glycerine, yellow and white saddle soap????????????

If there is I would really like to know. There's got to be thousands of years combined experience here which makes things like this neat. We don't have to buy more stuff and experiment!

[Hidemechanic]

Pete, In some cases that's part of the fun is trying new things.

Frankly, I was tought to use bees wax for burnishing, so when I saw another saddle maker in town using bar saddle soap and I just never got the hang of it.

What I think is a determination as to what compound to use for burnishing is related to what method you use to burnish. I spent a year or two burnishing by hand with a folded piece of #2duck canvas. I have delt with an artheritic condition since I was a teenager which was aggrivated by the things I did with my hands so I stated looking for other ways to burnish. I finally baught a soal finisher which had a 4 1/2" block of hard wood turned round with grooves in it. Now it sits in a less convinient location so when I have smaller projects that don't warent using the big finisher I use a dremmal. There is a tool attachment that has a little rubber drum(for sanding) with a washer and screw to hold it on. I removed the rubber drum and made a leather one about an inch round. I grooved it and have used it for years to burnish smaller items. Sometimes I have to rub the edge first with beeswax, in my case, add some to my little burnisher the get after it. I haven't read all the posts about burnishing hear so it may have been mentioned that burnishing on the dry has the same effect as stamping on the dry causeing the burnishing effect.(needing some moisture)

Those who have other devices will have good results with other compounds. I think the differences is sucess may be in the combination of material used for the burnisher and it's speed, and the compound and how it responds to the friction that is developed by the speed of the tool. One other factor is probably the way the crafter finesses it all. I probably just never got that part down with the bar soap(glyserine).

You may want to play around with different things just to see what you like better. If something that works for you, you stick with it. Part of the personallity of the craft.

Hope that's helpfull. G.Hackett

[Michael Sheldon]

I've used the bar-type saddle soap for years, worked fine for me. I'm back to using gum trag for most things, but still use saddle soap on light-colored pieces where I'm concerned about potential discoloration.

[esantoro]

Since the start of this thread, I've been using the saddle soap and like it a lot. I just now ordered white saddle soap, as the yellow soap does stain a bit certain leathers.

So far, saddle soap seems to be a good choice for some chrome tanned leathers, while gum trag seems to work better on veg tan and bridle leather, though i really haven't experimented enough to be sure.

Ed

[Billy P]

Mike and or anyone else who can help, how do you apply the gum trag to the edges? I mean do you put on with your finger, a rag, a Q-tip, etc.? I use it too and haven't found a good way to apply it to the edges yet. Thanks Billy P

[Daggrim]

I'm rather new to the LARGE world of leather work. What's gum trag?

Daggrim

[bruce johnson]

Daggrim,

Gum Tragacanth is a gleatinous kind of mixture used in a lot of products from medicine to cosmetics. It is used on edges of leather and then rubbed to burnish them. It is usually sold mixed up, but some places sell it as a powder. Easier to buy it mixed, they add an antimicrobial of some time I think. I bought some powder (not cheap) and mixed it myself several years ago. It grew more mold by the end of a week than bad cheese in an unplugged refrigerator.

Billy,

I like the effects of gum trag. I never really found a decent way to apply it until about a year ago. I tried sponges, sponge brushes, rags, finger tips, envelope moistening pens, etc. They all work, but when you have a pile of work to slick, they take too long. You are applying some to a sponge, it runs out, reapply after 6" of edge, gain another 6". I hit a deal on one of the Heritage Dye Boxes that Weaver sells. I never liked it for dye, The reservoir is too deep and requires too much dye to bring it up the roller sponge level, It is a bit uneven in its application of dye, and a real pain to clean every time. I put gum trag in it and have never looked back. It puts the right amount on, continuously reapplies fresh GT to the roller, and I have never cleaned it since. I just snap on the cover and leave it sit. I replenish, stir with my finger, and go on the next time. For shorter runs, a small sponge paint roller might work.

To weigh in on saddles soap. I use that too. I only use the white now, and sometimes I apply it to leather before I tool it also. The yellow saddle soap can leave some lavender spots on some leathers. I use SS to slick edges on latigo and some strap work. A few things about it. For me it will lay down the fibers and look pretty smooth. I have a hard time generating the friction needed to burnish (and there is a difference between slicking and burnishing). Burnished edges will resist nicking more than a slicked edges. Burnished edges will look more glassy. SS will pull of my edge dye if I dye the edge first. SS will partially resist my edge dye if I dye after slicking. I have got some flaming purple edges. For straps like breast collar tugs and horse tack that I am not putting a sealer on or edge dyeing, I use SS to slick them. It will lay down the fibers on the fleshside too, and give a nice waxy feel. I have a damp rag that I saturate with SS and use that rag to slick with - rub on edges or wrap it around straps and pull them through. I store the rag in an empty SS can and keep it moist. Some guys will let them dry and use them drier than me. Personal preference.

I use wax sometimes too. About anything that will moisten an edge can be used to burnish - water, casing solution, alcohol. I was taught in one class early on to use spirit dyes. It works, but the golden period is shorter and I messed up some projects with spillage and dripping issues. I could probably use it now with some improved application methods.

[Brandon]

Someone sent me a bottle of Corn Huskers Lotion, burnished well and smells good too.

I still prefer water.Lazy I guess.

[Kevin]

I just read a few minutes ago that Corn Husker's Lotion is or was thickened with GUM TRAGACANTH. I just use a dauber for application, since it is water soluble, the dauber can be dried out but after a few minutes use it is ok again. I have tied alot of different things in 30 years, including wallpaper paste. Right now, I am using ABC School glue made by Best Test. I thin it with a little water and apply with a foam paint brush, then rub with a chunk of wood and or canvas. I've been using it about 3 weeks, itseems much faster than Tragacanth (Weaver's), and actually stays burnished 'til the item leaves the shop. Kevin

[David Genadek]

I use edge and casing compund which is the base for antique stains. It is pretty much Gum tragacanth. I think the important concept here is that you really don't rub the edge you compress the edge and you use the edge product for two reasons. One to help bind the fibers together, and 2 to act as a lubricant so you can apply enough pressure to get the compression you need for a good edge.

I finish with a polyurethane that was designed for shoe refinishing to create a patent leather look. These edges hold up for the life of the product.

David Genadek

[bruce johnson]

David,

Is that the same edge polyurethane that Bill Gomer used in his video? Where can it be bought in a decent quantity? I can justify gallons, but anything larger is overkill for me. Thanks.

[esantoro]

Bruce,

I read on ron's tool's website that he sells an edging/burnishing compound.

Ed

[David Genadek]

Bruce,

I'm not sure what Bill used but it is highly likely it was the same stuff. It is made by Dyo Chemical company however, Dyo recently blew up and I see John Mills ,the owner, has pulled the web site. I talked to him after the exsplosion and at that point he was trying to keep things going. He worked out a deal with LCI to make the product so I guess that would be the place to start. Your looking for Dyo Poly Cote Neutral. You can get it in colors too but I prefer to dye and rub it the traditional way and just use it as a edge finish. Dyo used to sell in Gallons but it has been so long since I have ordered anything other than 5s I can't say for sure. I would think a distributer would sell Gallons if they won't sell direct. In fact the shoe finders would probable carry in quarts. It is not cheap but it goes a long way.

David Genadek

[bruce johnson]

Ed,

I can't believe I left that one off. I bought a quart a few years ago, and used it up pretty quickly. I was in my experiemental mode then and tried other stuff, and finally replaced it the last time I saw him. A thinnish liquid that applies easily and does a good job, especially with a little friction like on the wooden burnisher. Not sure what all is in it. If you let it dry in the tub, it leaves a really hard wax. I like it for heavy edges on skirting that I am not going to dye. Good stuff.

Like Kevin, I use glue on some edges too. The white glue thinned just like he said. I rub it hard and build up some heat. It makes a great edge, but takes some work. I like it for things like saddlehorn and leather covered stirrup edges. I have had problems with it cracking on things that flex much like planners and belts.

[SACL]

I used white saddle sharp today to do the initial edging On my belts. I'm using a drum dyed leather. Anyway, I applied the saddle soap with a wet sponge and burnished my edges. I'm now noticing that where the soap smeared into the leather it is leaving dark spots. I tried wiping it away but it's not coming out. Any ideas? I really don't want to scrap this belt and start over. Thanks!

I used white saddle sharp today to do the initial edging On my belts. I'm using a drum dyed leather. Anyway, I applied the saddle soap with a wet sponge and burnished my edges. I'm now noticing that where the soap smeared into the leather it is leaving dark spots. I tried wiping it away but it's not coming out. Any ideas? I really don't want to scrap this belt and start over. Thanks!

[electrathon]

First, I did not know that white soap worked, have always used yellow.

I used white saddle sharp today to do the initial edging On my belts. I'm using a drum dyed leather. Anyway, I applied the saddle soap with a wet sponge and burnished my edges. I'm now noticing that where the soap smeared into the leather it is leaving dark spots. I tried wiping it away but it's not coming out. Any ideas? I really don't want to scrap this belt and start over. Thanks!

I used white saddle sharp today to do the initial edging On my belts. I'm using a drum dyed leather. Anyway, I applied the saddle soap with a wet sponge and burnished my edges. I'm now noticing that where the soap smeared into the leather it is leaving dark spots. I tried wiping it away but it's not coming out. Any ideas? I really don't want to scrap this belt and start over. Thanks!

When I do it I get the leather wet, then rub the bar of soap along the edge. As to the discolorization, I would soap up the whole piece. That is what it is made for. It likely will darken it, but it will be darker everywhere and well conditioned.

[Ben00]

On 12/22/2007 at 8:57 AM, David Genadek said:

I use edge and casing compund which is the base for antique stains. It is pretty much Gum tragacanth. I think the important concept here is that you really don't rub the edge you compress the edge and you use the edge product for two reasons. One to help bind the fibers together, and 2 to act as a lubricant so you can apply enough pressure to get the compression you need for a good edge.

I finish with a polyurethane that was designed for shoe refinishing to create a patent leather look. These edges hold up for the life of the product.

David Genadek

Hey David, 

 

can u drop the name of the polyethurane that you use as a reist? Also just confirming that your saying that this shoe finishing product is durable through essentially any environment? (Water, extreme heat, extreme cold, frequent bending, no cracking of paint?) do you know if it is more durable than a product such as neat-lac? 
 

thanks Ben N

[Ben00]

On 12/20/2007 at 10:02 PM, bruce johnson said:

Daggrim,

Gum Tragacanth is a gleatinous kind of mixture used in a lot of products from medicine to cosmetics. It is used on edges of leather and then rubbed to burnish them. It is usually sold mixed up, but some places sell it as a powder. Easier to buy it mixed, they add an antimicrobial of some time I think. I bought some powder (not cheap) and mixed it myself several years ago. It grew more mold by the end of a week than bad cheese in an unplugged refrigerator.

Billy,

I like the effects of gum trag. I never really found a decent way to apply it until about a year ago. I tried sponges, sponge brushes, rags, finger tips, envelope moistening pens, etc. They all work, but when you have a pile of work to slick, they take too long. You are applying some to a sponge, it runs out, reapply after 6" of edge, gain another 6". I hit a deal on one of the Heritage Dye Boxes that Weaver sells. I never liked it for dye, The reservoir is too deep and requires too much dye to bring it up the roller sponge level, It is a bit uneven in its application of dye, and a real pain to clean every time. I put gum trag in it and have never looked back. It puts the right amount on, continuously reapplies fresh GT to the roller, and I have never cleaned it since. I just snap on the cover and leave it sit. I replenish, stir with my finger, and go on the next time. For shorter runs, a small sponge paint roller might work.

To weigh in on saddles soap. I use that too. I only use the white now, and sometimes I apply it to leather before I tool it also. The yellow saddle soap can leave some lavender spots on some leathers. I use SS to slick edges on latigo and some strap work. A few things about it. For me it will lay down the fibers and look pretty smooth. I have a hard time generating the friction needed to burnish (and there is a difference between slicking and burnishing). Burnished edges will resist nicking more than a slicked edges. Burnished edges will look more glassy. SS will pull of my edge dye if I dye the edge first. SS will partially resist my edge dye if I dye after slicking. I have got some flaming purple edges. For straps like breast collar tugs and horse tack that I am not putting a sealer on or edge dyeing, I use SS to slick them. It will lay down the fibers on the fleshside too, and give a nice waxy feel. I have a damp rag that I saturate with SS and use that rag to slick with - rub on edges or wrap it around straps and pull them through. I store the rag in an empty SS can and keep it moist. Some guys will let them dry and use them drier than me. Personal preference.

I use wax sometimes too. About anything that will moisten an edge can be used to burnish - water, casing solution, alcohol. I was taught in one class early on to use spirit dyes. It works, but the golden period is shorter and I messed up some projects with spillage and dripping issues. I could probably use it now with some improved application methods.

Hi Bruce, 

 

you say there is a difference between slicking an edge and burnishing I’m a bit new to this, but anywhere online it says slicking and burnishing are the same. Is slicking more the process of compressing the fibers manually and burnishing is doing it by machine I ask as I’m considering buying a Dremel tool, or possibly a soldering iron. I’ve been told since I’m looking to edge very thin leather like exotic reptile skin, and i will be colouring my edges  then I should use the soldering iron. But if burnishing is the best way to go possibly that sounds tempting lmk thanks.

 

ben N