holsters

[OzarkMountainGunleather]

These are a few prototypes

I Made up for Wislon Combat

Thought you all might enjoy

Thanks for Looking

Luke

[Jordan]

Very nice work, looks sturdy and professional, you should have a ready market for those and more like them. Machine stitching?

[K-Man]

Always enjoy seeing stingray on a holster - gives it some extra bling.

Edited November 24, 2007 by K-Man

[TKanaley]

Interesting. Did you forget to add the second snap?

http://www.miltsparks.com/axiom.htm

[OzarkMountainGunleather]

yes they are machine stiched

Tony this is for you

I admit I got the idea from the axiom

but i use a single hard action snap because that is all that it requires

and i added the shirt guard which your axiom does not have and

I also redesined the entire holster to make it conform more to the body like our low profile

Got nothin against you bud I admire your work and think you a great holster make

to be honest with you I made my first holster less than a year ago for Wilson but I have been In leather work all my Life

this holster thing is kinda new to me

Oh yeah I do have some holsters coming out in american handguner i think your gonna like keep your I open

Im not in competition with yall

You have already formed your nitch in the business

Im Just trying to form mine

[TKanaley]

Tony this is for you

I admit I got the idea from the axiom

but i use a single hard action snap because that is all that it requires

Course you are aware that over time the single snap, especially one that is set down as low on the strap as the snap is on your version, will eventually allow the strap to rotate outwards, away from the gun thus allowing the gun to drift outwards away from the body? I guess one wouldn't really know that just by copying something, but through months of actually wear testing it before bringing it to market.

I also redesined the entire holster to make it conform more to the body like our low profile

The holster body didn't need to be redesigned, because if you actually spent the money to purchase one instead of just copying the pictures off our site, you would know that the Axiom is already pre-contoured to the shape of the human torso. No improvement needed there, nor can you call your modification an improvement.

Oh yeah I do have some holsters coming out in american handguner i think your gonna like keep your I open

Im not in competition with yall

You have already formed your nitch in the business

Im Just trying to form mine

I'm not worried about the competition. Being 6 months behind and backlogged as we have been for the last 25 years, we have way more work than we can ever handle. There's there's plenty of work to go around and I've always encouraged newcomers to get into the field and maybe show us old timers how to do a thing or two. However, I do get a little tired of doing all the brainstorming, pattern developement, R&D and paid promotion by way of advertising only to supply ideas to those who haven't been able to come up with anything original of their own. If you can't see why someone might be a little perturbed about that, maybe you will someday when you become successful.

I do wish you luck.

T

[OzarkMountainGunleather]

Tony,

I did do my own r and d and wore these around for months

the reason I used one snap instead of two is that I found

that on snap makes it easier to use I put two atach points on the back side of the holster

instead of attaching with the snap My straps are attached by 2 t nuts on the back side which prevents the slide of the straps out ward

I also contoured the lip of the holster to prevent this from hapening as well

I didn't buy a holster from you because first of all I was not trying to steal your design in any way.

and second of all I would have had to wait 6 months to get one.

you had a good idea a holster that you can attach detach easily without removing your belt there were many styles on the market

Most are Like Galcos (junk I think) yours was the most streamlined outthere

Im not saying either holster is the better holster

Im simply saying that this holster meets our needs better that yours

Im not trying to make an enemy Tony

I just wanted to show off my work here a little

Wilson Combat gets all recognition for any and all of my work

and I just wanted to show my fellow leather workers what I had produced

I told you in the email that I sent you that I have a lot of respect for you

your ideas have helped Milts company continue his legacy

[TKanaley]

I know Bill Wilson. I've met him on a couple of occasions and have talked to him on the phone more than a few times. Is he aware where you got this idea from? If not, he will as I have just fired him off an email and directed him to this thread. There once was a time when Bill wouldn't have approved of ripping off a competitor, as I'm sure it has happened more than once to him. I dunno, maybe things have changed.

My comments on your loop configuration stands. But, what do I care if Wilson has to swap out stretched loops several months down the road. The thing is, if you're going to copy something, you at least ought to try and improve on it, instead of just going for the "look", which in my opinion, you and Wilson are just trying to capitalize on, since by virtue of my hard work I have already proven the "original" design to be sound.

Oh and by the way, if by your own admission you have never worn our version of your new holster, how would you know that having two snaps like what we utilize on ours is more difficult than one? Changing something for the worse just so you can call it your own, doesn't make much sense unless making the quick buck is all that matters. A one snap attachment is the cheap way to manufacture that particular design, as it is much less labor intensive than adding the second snap.

Our Axiom has two attachment points on the back as well. However, unlike yours, the top attachment which gets all the stress from the belt is screwed through both sides of the holster which means it will never rip out.

You keep throwing out stuff to make yours sound like its unique, but for the better?

TK

[Ross]

I know Bill Wilson. I've met him on a couple of occasions and have talked to him on the phone more than a few times. Is he aware where you got this idea from? If not, he will as I have just fired him off an email and directed him to this thread. There once was a time when Bill wouldn't have approved of ripping off a competitor, as I'm sure it has happened more than once to him. I dunno, maybe things have changed.

My comments on your loop configuration stands. But, what do I care if Wilson has to swap out stretched loops several months down the road. The thing is, if you're going to copy something, you at least ought to try and improve on it, instead of just going for the "look", which in my opinion, you and Wilson are just trying to capitalize on, since by virtue of my hard work I have already proven the "original" design to be sound.

Oh and by the way, if by your own admission you have never worn our version of your new holster, how would you know that having two snaps like what we utilize on ours is more difficult than one? Changing something for the worse just so you can call it your own, doesn't make much sense unless making the quick buck is all that matters. A one snap attachment is the cheap way to manufacture that particular design, as it is much less labor intensive than adding the second snap.

Our Axiom has two attachment points on the back as well. However, unlike yours, the top attachment which gets all the stress from the belt is screwed through both sides of the holster which means it will never rip out.

You keep throwing out stuff to make yours sound like its unique, but for the better?

TK

i understand where you're coming from... side note: if i create a molded holster (which i have considered) it will of necessity look an awful lot like other holsters. i won't look at anyone else's holster before i do make one though. i carried for years as a cop and know what i want from one. i would simply create one that did what i wanted. if it wound up looking like yours i would hope you took it as a compliment, cause i sure wouldn't be trying to copy you.

[Jordan]

wow, ???? how do you make a holster that does'nt look like one. There seems to be only so many ways to put them together and so many hardware configurations before they all have similarites that can't be denied. As was said earlier it is a large market and room for many makers, as long as the item is top quality, well designed and the customer is happy, what does it matter that someone was impressed enough with someone's work, to model their product after it? as long as they don't misrepresent it in the marketplace or violate any patent or trademark laws I don't see the problem. Maybe I am just off the mark with this but I would be flattered that someone copied something I made.

[TKanaley]

i understand where you're coming from... side note: if i create a molded holster (which i have considered) it will of necessity look an awful lot like other holsters. i won't look at anyone else's holster before i do make one though. i carried for years as a cop and know what i want from one. i would simply create one that did what i wanted. if it wound up looking like yours i would hope you took it as a compliment, cause i sure wouldn't be trying to copy you.

Hey Ross,

There are only so many ways to bend a piece of leather around a handgun. I respect someone that would try and come up with something useful on their own rather than just depend on others to do their thinking for them. I'm speaking of the commercial aspect of holstermaking as opposed to someone just doing a single project for themselves. Someone who just wants to make a holster for their own personal use would benefit to emulate the work of others so that they can get a feel for the craft and learn what it takes to get from point A to finished project.

Unfortunately, many of the so called professionals in my trade that are completely devoid of any ideas of their own, are only too happy to let others come up with workable ideas for them. Many don't even try to improve on those ideas, but simply copy the look so that they can market it by association.

In the commercial aspect of holstermaking, there are makers that actually bring something to the table and then there are those who are content with just sitting at it.

TK

[TKanaley]

wow, ???? how do you make a holster that does'nt look like one. There seems to be only so many ways to put them together and so many hardware configurations before they all have similarites that can't be denied. As was said earlier it is a large market and room for many makers, as long as the item is top quality, well designed and the customer is happy, what does it matter that someone was impressed enough with someone's work, to model their product after it? as long as they don't misrepresent it in the marketplace or violate any patent or trademark laws I don't see the problem. Maybe I am just off the mark with this but I would be flattered that someone copied something I made.

Jordan,

The Axiom hasn't been around that long to where it has developed a large following like some of our holsters have. One particular model of ours has been around for about 10 years and has developed a very large following. In fact, you can log onto just about any handgun related site, on any given day and on the holster and accessories page of those sites you will find people raving about this particular holster. Many makers have come up with holsters that carry the gun in a similar manner, but by looking at them you may recognize only the concept that it is based on, not by the holster that may have influenced the design. And I'll be frank and say even though this particular holster of mine may have had some influence on the current trend, it wasn't the very first of it's kind. The concept wasn't brand new, only the way I designed it that set it apart from the couple examples that came before it. The same with most of the other makers that later built on that concept. The makers, by reasons of their own ingenuity, managed to come up with competing models that totally set theirs apart from the rest. That's what holster making on a custom/commercial level should be all about. Improving, not just feeding on the status quo.

I can't do anything about the blatant ripoff factor that is prevalent only within a small minority of our trade. But I sure can try to make them feel uncomfortable about it.

TK

[Jordan]

Point taken, this is true in most if not all manufacturing, walley world knockoffs of almost every product out there as an example.

[OzarkMountainGunleather]

This site is for the sharing of Ideas and Concepts and to offer a tool to teach younger people in leather work what ways work best for doing things. This was the first post I have ever put on this forum because I feel I am now at a level in leather work that I can be of help to others in the holster trade. I am sorry if my post has offended Multi Million Dollar Holster Manufactures.

I am a small guy in the holster world and am not intersted in ticking off anyone period.

I posted these holsters to show their beauty and because i am proud of them. (and still am)

I have not "ripped off" any one. I would never do that. I belive that helping people starting out in the leather industry is vital to the survival of our trade. It is a dying trade. And I take any chance I have to help anyone who asks me. And if you were to talk to the people that are in my town who come into my shop on a regular basis they would tell you that.

I will no longer be posting any messages on this thread because I feel this disscusion is pointless.

It is not of any benfit to the leather worker community.

If anyone enjoyed looking at my holsters and would like info on how to build their own holsters or any of my casing methods email me at alwsaddlery@yahoo.com. Because If it were not for the help I recived from numerous holster makers I would not be able to turn out the quality of holster that I do

I apologize to all who use these boards for turning this into a fight between myself and Milt Sparks Holsters.

It was not my intent in any way.

I was not even trying to advertise my product. (as I cant sell them myself to anyone period)

I simply was atempting to become a part of what I think is a great leather worker community

Thanks to all for looking and I will post a few of my other types of leather work (not holsters) when I get a chance.

[TKanaley]

I am sorry if my post has offended Multi Million Dollar Holster Manufactures.

Our business grossed about $625,000 last year. Far from being the "Multi Million Dollar Holster Manufacturer". And that is with 6 full time guys working 50 hour weeks. We are small too, so don't turn this into a reverse David vs Goliath thing. Wilson Combats revenue dwarfs us in comparison.

I apologize to all who use these boards for turning this into a fight between myself and Milt Sparks Holsters.

And I do appologize to the members of this board as well. Any further posting I do on this site will hopefully be in the spirit of comraderie as it should be.

TK

[Randy Cornelius]

Anyone who wears a holster that is secured to the belt or person by just a couple snaps needs to re-think thier actions. Just like holsters secured with the metal clips, they are not for use in the real world. Snaps come undone at the most unopertune moments much to the embarassment of the user and wearer of whatever the snaps hold up, hold on to or keep from getting out or hold up. Hope this does not start a flame, just my thoughts from wearing a gun every day for the last 25 years as an LEO.

Randy

[TKanaley]

Anyone who wears a holster that is secured to the belt or person by just a couple snaps needs to re-think thier actions. Just like holsters secured with the metal clips, they are not for use in the real world. Snaps come undone at the most unopertune moments much to the embarassment of the user and wearer of whatever the snaps hold up, hold on to or keep from getting out or hold up. Hope this does not start a flame, just my thoughts from wearing a gun every day for the last 25 years as an LEO.

Randy

Which is why we use two snaps to secure each loop instead a single. If one fails, the other will secure the holster until the failed snap can be repaired. On top of that, the uppermost snap is a directional snap which will not break free by the weight of the holster. The lower most is a regular hard action that adds strength and security to the upper snap.

Another makers variation of the snap on design is used by members of Delta Force as well as Law enforcement and others in the special ops community. Our snap on the belt, inside-the-waistband holsters are used universally by LEO's all over the country as well as by members of the special ops community to include members of Seal Team 8. Snaps aint like clips and if the holster is engineered right, snaps do their job just fine.

TK

TK

[hiloboy]

That is some good looking holsters from both makers. One thing i would like to know is how do you find the time as the owner of a company that works 50 hr a week and a 6month backlog . and you still know just when another maker was going to post a picture of a holster that looks like your on a web site ..How does that work? Ozark,has posted 4 time and you have posted 7 time in all ..and all in the same tread..and you joined yesterday.. That is so cool.. now did you know he was going to post here and not at another web site?But for me i'd have to say with a company your size i think a patent and a lawyer would work better than trying to flame every one that may make a holster that looks like yours.. just my 2 cents more time for making holsters....

Edited November 25, 2007 by hiloboy

[TKanaley]

That is some good looking holsters from both makers. One thing i would like to know is how do you find the time as the owner of a company that works 50 hr a week and a 6month backlog . and you still know just when another maker was going to post a picture of a holster that looks like your on a web site ..How does that work? Ozark,has posted 4 time and you have posted 7 time in all ..and all in the same tread..and you joined yesterday.. That is so cool.. now did you know he was going to post here and not at another web site?But for me i'd have to say with a company your size i think a patent and a lawyer would work better that trying to flame every one that may make a holster that looks like yours.. just my 2 cents more time for making holsters....

I got an email that said I should come here and take a look. 50 hours a week indeed. No rest for the wicked!

[hiloboy]

How don't tell me it was Ozark that email you.. That would be to cool

[TKanaley]

How don't tell me it was Ozark that email you.. That would be to cool

You mean as a gratuitious means of generating a little attention??? Naw, no business to be had here to go though that much trouble! Hey, maybe Ozark and I are one and the same!! Better check them IP's....

[hiloboy]

Well if you and Ozark are one in the same.You both make nice looking holsters . or one of you does who knows.. or it could be to much time on your hands..laters my head hurts to much thinking... have a cold one :beer: and keep making those holsters.. and thanks again for letting me spend the time with you or both of you...tell we meet again

Edited November 25, 2007 by hiloboy

[TKanaley]

..laters my head hurts to much thinking...

....or maybe too much Maui Wowee?? Mahalo.

[hiloboy]

just a little Kona Gold and i'll be just fine

[Go2Tex]

Our business grossed about $625,000 last year. ..............

Well if I'd known there was that much money in it, I'd be making a lot more holsters and a lot less saddles. ....... So eh, move over boys. The cat's out of the bag.