Needle size for Old Singer

[Gliden07]

I have an old Singer 29-4 tredle machine I'm getting going. I need some help on what I should use for a needle. I'm going to use this machine primarily for sheaths, so I'm gonna be running it at the limit of its ability! I've been trying to figure out how big of a needle, seem to be a lot of conflicting information. I've seen anywhere from 29-4 110 to 29-4 160 with a Chisel tip. I'm a noob to this stuff (obviously) and don't really know what I'm doing! Any help would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

[kgg]

16 minutes ago, Gliden07 said:

I have an old Singer 29-4 tredle machine I'm getting going

The Singer 29K-4 should be able to handle needles from #11 to #23 so it can handle thread up to V138 depending on the thickness of the leather. The needle plate will have marked holes that will accomdate the smaller and larger needle sizes. The machine maybe able to handle up to 1/4" thickness depending on it's condition but be aware as the thickness of the leather being sewn increases the switch length will decrease. Also the amount of thread you are going to get on that tiny bobbin is going to be small and will be less as the thread size increases.

Thread size vs needle size can be found at: https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

I have attached a pdf of the manual

kgg

294.pdf

[Wizcrafts]

Unless your 29-4 is in factory condition or rebuilt, the stitch length may have already decreased from the factory standard 5 to the inch, down to 7 or 8 to the inch. That length would be when sewing about 6 ounce leather, as is used in shoe uppers. At 16 ounces the maximum stitch length usually drops to almost half. I would recommend that you check how much slack exists in the foot driving mechanism. Do this as follows:

1. raise the foot up all the way with the hand foot lift lever.
2. Loosen the thumbscrew on the stitch regulator bracket and lower it until it stops against the top of the raised foot.
3. Tighten the thumbscrew.
4. Now, push and pull on the foot to see how much slack it in its driving components.
5. In order to get 5 to the inch, at 6 ounces thickness, there shoul only be enough slack in the foot mechanism to allow it to rotate without binding.

I found in my own experience with 29-4s, that even 1/32 inch of slack translates into a drop of one stitch per inch. This is not a scientific measurement, just my finding on my machine. There are at least 3 places that can wear down that contribute to the loss of stitch length: the feed motion cam; the roller bearing in the revolving head housing, and the roller bearing on the back of the take-up rack.

The reason I pointed out the stitch length issues is bacause you are planning to sew knife sheathes together on that machine. Even if you limit them to 1/4 inch thickness, the best stitch length you would get out of a brand new patcher might be 7 or 8 to the inch. On an old worn out patcher from the early 20th Century, you might only get 9 to 12 stitches per inch, or worse. That would pretty much filigree the leather, especially if you use a #23 needle to sew with thre required size 138 bonded thread.. A 1/4 inch thick sheath should be sewn at 5 or 6 to the inch. 

As for the thread sizes, the #138 I recommended has about 22 pounds breaking strength. I consider that the absolute minimum size thread for holding something together that's 1/4 inch thick and will probably be under a lot of stress along the stitch line. When I sew sheathes that are 1/4 inch thick, I use #207 (w/#24 needle), or 277 (w/#25 needle) bonded thread. This is way beyond a Singer 29-4's capability.

I have a box of prewound bobbins I use in my small bobbin patchers. The thread size is #69 bonded nylon. Each one only contains 9.2 yards of thread in the box. I usually wind my bobbins fairly tightly, and estimate that I can load up to 10 yeards of #69 thread onto a steel bobbin. When loading a bobbin with #138 thread, it will be lucky to hold 5 yards, and will probably only make it to 4.5.Each 1/4 inch thick sheath will require between 2 and 3 feet of bobbin thread. Adding the starting and fininshing tails, call it a yard per sheath. Each bobbin load will sew about 4 sheathes.

It takes a lot of force to punch a #23 needle, with #138 thread, through a 1/4 of veg-tan leather. If the leather is very dense, the feed mechanism will take a pounding and over time, the stitch length will worsen even more. The leather will tend to lift with the ascending needle, which causes skipped stitches. To counter this lift, you'll need to crank down the foot pressre. This will cause the teeth on the foot to really dig deep marks on the top grain. It will also make it harder to pull the leather back for the next stitch. Thus, the stitch length weill drop even further.

Are you sure you want to sew knife sheathes on a Singer 29-4 patcher?

[Gliden07]

Thanks for the replys!! A lot more to consider than I thought!! Really appreciate the help. The quest continues after more research!! I plan on sewing wallets and other items but wanted the worse case scenario (sheath). Would really like a Cobra 26 but not in the budget right now!

Edited November 17, 2023 by Gliden07

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, Gliden07 said:

Thanks for the replys!! A lot more to consider than I thought!! Really appreciate the help. The quest continues after more research!! I plan on sewing wallets and other items but wanted the worse case scenario (sheath). Would really like a Cobra 26 but not in the budget right now!

You should begin searching for an upholstery class compound feed walking foot machine. You can find them in good working condition from $500 up to $1200. This will get you started until you can afford a real leather stitcher. These machines are Singer 111w153 or 155, or clones, like a Juki LU-563, or a Consew 206RB-(number).

[Gliden07]

Well I got the Singer I have for free that's why I'm trying to work with it. 

[Wizcrafts]

Okay. If you must use the 29-4, buy #22 & #23 leather point needles, and some spools of #138 bonded nylon thread for sheathes. The thinner jobs can be sewn with #69 or #92 thread, using a #18 or #19 needle, respectively.

[Gliden07]

Thank you Wizcrafts!!