coats 207 top and bottom in my Juki 441`

[esantoro]

I'm using a new oragan tripoint needle #25. The top thread is the only thread fraying. I have checked the thread path. From what I can tell, the thread is fraying right at the point where the hook begins pulling the top thread down to be pulled over and around the bobbin case.

My new educated guess is that the 277 top thread in a #25 needle is too taught in the 5/7 oz veg tan/latigo I'm currently using, resulting in too much tension from only the needle hole in the leather, not any of the tension adjusters. I even smoothed the edge on the hook where the top thread wraps around.

I'll try some chrome tanned leather and see what happens. There should be less tension in the needle whole on chrome tanned. I never thought I'd have to go to a #26 needle.

Thanks for your help,

Ed

[Art]

HI Ed,

I use a 230 (26) all the time for 346/277, I do lube. I've run 300-400 spm like that without a problem, Rice nylon or Coats Poly DABond.

Art

[esantoro]

I've been pretty much going by the needle/thread charts and even thinking that with coats poly I could go to a needle smaller than recommended.

Just did a bit more experimentation. I put in the Schmetz 27 fabric needle that came with the machine to see what would happen. Problem is gone, but a 27 hole is way too big. I just ordered a pack of #26 needles, as I want to get some work done today and like the 277 thickness. Now I'll play around with 346....my oh my... I see my thread costs rising already.

I'm also beginning to think that perhaps there might be a problem with the Organ #25 tri point/diamond point, and perhaps for certain size threads, a certain size and make of needle works better.

Art, are you using Organ or schmetz? I think I'll order schmetz #25 tomorrow, as I think #26 for 277 top and 207 bottom will just make too big of a hole.

I really do appreciate the help with trouble shooting this problem.

Thanks,

Ed

[esantoro]

Art,

What is your SPI when using 346/277?

Ed

[Art]

Hi Ed,

I use Schmetz, I tried the Organ and found them too bendy. With 346 I am at 6 SPI. With 277 I might try 7. On the Campbell I use 6 SPI with 4 Cord which is kind of like 277.

Art

Art,

What is your SPI when using 346/277?

Ed

[esantoro]

Just got off the phone with Ferdco. It seems that the Schmetz needles have a longer thread groove on them and the problem I am having does happen with the Organ needles and thicker thread. Now I think I know to just stick with schmetz.

Thanks again for the help,

Ed

[Art]

Hi Ed,

I only use Schmetz or Groz-Beckert on the big machines. I got a pack of Organ 135x16TRI from Ferdco once, used a couple, the rest are in the drawer.

Art

Just got off the phone with Ferdco. It seems that the Schmetz needles have a longer thread groove on them and the problem I am having does happen with the Organ needles and thicker thread. Now I think I know to just stick with schmetz.

Thanks again for the help,

Ed

[esantoro]

Hi Art,

I'm glad you mentioned Groz-Beckert. In my haste I ordered a pack of those too from different supplier and wanted to know your opinion of them.

ed

[Art]

The Swiss needles are good. I don't use them a lot primarily because of supply, and Schmetz work and I can always seem to get what I want, even the reverse twist.

Art

Hi Art,

I'm glad you mentioned Groz-Beckert. In my haste I ordered a pack of those too from different supplier and wanted to know your opinion of them.

ed

[esantoro]

I received my needle order from Ferdco. I had asked for diamond or tri point but they sent S serv 1, which I gave a try. Not bad. The serv 1 points seem to put down a stitch that looks hand stitched. Are there any issues regarding the serv 1 points that I should be aware of? For some reason, the proper size #25 serv 1 needle works well with 277 thread, when the organ #25 diamond point frays the thread.

ed