thinking of purchasing a machine

[Roger]

i am thinking of purchasing a machine to sew up to 18oz or so.

i'm looking for suggestions.

i need to spend as little as possible but have a machine that will do the job.

the top end of what i'm looking for seems to be an artisan 797 ABlther.

also is the new version worth the extra couple $$?

for sure i want a walking foot machine with a servo motor. i see quite a few machines for under $1000 but need some input

[Mike]

I used to have a Classic by Luberto. Very nice but probably not in the price range you want. It and the Campbell are the only ones I have any familiarity with and their kind of pricey.

[Roger]

I used to have a Classic by Luberto. Very nice but probably not in the price range you want. It and the Campbell are the only ones I have any familiarity with and their kind of pricey.

both very nice heavy machines but, more than i am looking to start out with.

[Roger]

i see a bunch of Gempsy and yamata machines on ebay.

any input on these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=120182622064

[bruce johnson]

My thoughts are a few here. First off, I would recommend buying from a company that sells machines set up for leather and stocks the parts. Sometimes the clone parts fit other clones, and sometimes they don't. Service is just as important as price. Buying a reputation machine is almost like sewing for free. The resale and trouble-free use is time and money saved.

Looks like on Artisan's website that they have a few versions of the 797 leather machines. My concern is that the largest thread they handle appears to be 138. If that is OK great, but something that could go up to at least 207 seems more versatile, and probably could be found in a close price range. Dave from Artisan can probably chime in which comparable machine will do heavier thread. It just seems to me that sewing 138 max on 18 oz is a little light for me.

An old time leather machine guy advised me one time to get machines that the capacity is about twice as much as what I am sewing. If I am sewing 3/8" regularly, the machine should handle uo to 3/4". I don't know how serious a rule of thumb that is in the industry, but it works for me.

[Art]

Hi Beeze,

I kind of agree with Bruce, however I have one question. What are you going to be sewing Most (like 80%) of the time. If you think most of the work will be 18oz, then a 3000 is way better than a 797, or even a 618. If you are going to be doing 2 pieces of 6 oz and a 4 or 6 oz total welt, than a 618 with welt feet is going to be the ticket. The 618 has feet like the Singer 111 and there are just loads of feet available for them, so determining your primary application is very important. It is also important to tell the person you buy from what to set the machine up to do. If you are going to be doing 18oz then you will need a little more foot clearance than they are usually set up for. If you want the machine to sew 207 out of the box then you will need to let them know.

I have been researching the Chinese sewing machine market for a book/video I hope to write after I retire. Machinery is a wild market over there probably much like our east in the early 20th century. However they have little if any regard for patents or copyrights. I have found at least 4 manufacturers of 618 machines out there with quality ranging from fair (maybe even poor) to excellent, but even the fair machines are usable, they just might not last as long, require more maintenance, or be a bear getting parts for. You see this mainly in the Smaller class of machines not so much in the big stitchers. I can recommend Artisan and I think Bruce can vouch for Ferdco. I can't vouch for anyone's used machine especially if it is someone's first machine, buy new the first time unless you have someone experienced to help. After you get some experience, keep an eye open for a good deal, but don't chase anything just to own a name, a machine in good to great condition at a fabulous price is what you want (it also helps to need it, but that hasn't stopped me a couple of times, especially when the machine is local).

Art

My thoughts are a few here. First off, I would recommend buying from a company that sells machines set up for leather and stocks the parts. Sometimes the clone parts fit other clones, and sometimes they don't. Service is just as important as price. Buying a reputation machine is almost like sewing for free. The resale and trouble-free use is time and money saved.

Looks like on Artisan's website that they have a few versions of the 797 leather machines. My concern is that the largest thread they handle appears to be 138. If that is OK great, but something that could go up to at least 207 seems more versatile, and probably could be found in a close price range. Dave from Artisan can probably chime in which comparable machine will do heavier thread. It just seems to me that sewing 138 max on 18 oz is a little light for me.

An old time leather machine guy advised me one time to get machines that the capacity is about twice as much as what I am sewing. If I am sewing 3/8" regularly, the machine should handle uo to 3/4". I don't know how serious a rule of thumb that is in the industry, but it works for me.

[wolvenstien]

here is an artisian in tennessee.... brand new and if I had the 800 I would have it for myself....

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/bfs/492277765.html

not sure if it is what you are looking for.... but if it is.... here ya go....

[Roger]

thanks for the responces!

after reading here and doing some more looking around with what you guys suggest, i am now looking at a consew 206RB-5

i would love a heavier machine like the artisan 3000 but, i need a smaller machine to get things rolling and will look to upgrade if and when.... money is everything at the moment so if ican have this machine pay for it self quickly then i can start saving for something bigger.

at the moment i am thinking about small bags, straps belts ect.

i have no idea about any of this stuff so thanks again for your input.

let me know what you think about the consew machine

[Roger]

ok.. now on to needles and thread!

what size and type needles should i try for 138 and 207 thread?

what thread should i try and where to get it?

the machine uses the 135X17 needles

i guess i should also add feet and accessories to the mix.

should i use certain feet or a guid of some sort to get nice straight stitches on strap edges ect?

[Regis]

I use 138 in my Consew with a #23. I think you will find that 135X17 needles come for fabric and you'll have to go to a 135X16 for leather points like DI.

As a seperate reccomendation, if this is your first commercial machine venture, pick one where you can get good support. I bought my Consew for very low price at specbrands but, there is zero support. My 1st machine was Artisan 3000 and they (especially Steve) give tremendous support.

[Art]

Hi Roger,

I would use a 135x16TRI needle for leather, however there are reverse twist needles if you want that look. For 138 thread I use Linhanyl Nylon but Coats Poly would also work. I have used as small as a size 19 (120) and this gives a very tight stitch, an occasional needle break is also normal especially if you are not careful in areas where the thickness transitions. A 22 (140) is always safe and looks good but shows a lot of hole for me. A 22 (140) or 23 (160) would be my bet for 207, I'd use a 22 and if I had problems move it up.

Most of the tables you see for needles show what I consider very large sizes for a particular thread size, but keep in mind most users are running machines close to the speed of light compared to what we do. Stitch length and needle thread size are aesthetic parameters in the kind of work we do in addition to holding the work together.

Art

ok.. now on to needles and thread!

what size and type needles should i try for 138 and 207 thread?

what thread should i try and where to get it?

the machine uses the 135X17 needles

i guess i should also add feet and accessories to the mix.

should i use certain feet or a guid of some sort to get nice straight stitches on strap edges ect?

[Roger]

still looking around and found this machine.

yamata 335a looks to be another juki 441 clone. walking foot, 135x17 needle and will handle 207 thread

am i better off going with a cylinder bed machine? it only a few dollars more than the flat bed machines i was looking at.

[Artisan Dave]

Hi,

To begin - you should know that I work with the folks at Artisan.

Having said that, if you are looking at a Consew 206 - take a look at our 618-1 SC LTHR. Better yet - call me and I will give you some ideas of what to look for and what to look out for when doing your research.

That Yamata - You need to pay attention to comparing Apples with Apples. That model is not a Heavy Duty Stitcher that can sew 3/4".

Call! I have no interest in trying to SELL you - I would, however, be happy to try and educate you in your search.

[Roger]

Hi,

To begin - you should know that I work with the folks at Artisan.

Having said that, if you are looking at a Consew 206 - take a look at our 618-1 SC LTHR. Better yet - call me and I will give you some ideas of what to look for and what to look out for when doing your research.

That Yamata - You need to pay attention to comparing Apples with Apples. That model is not a Heavy Duty Stitcher that can sew 3/4".

Call! I have no interest in trying to SELL you - I would, however, be happy to try and educate you in your search.

thanks for the reply dave!

i have heard nothing but good things about the guys at artisan.

i will try and give you a call some time soon.

[bcurrier]

still looking around and found this machine.

yamata 335a looks to be another juki 441 clone. walking foot, 135x17 needle and will handle 207 thread

am i better off going with a cylinder bed machine? it only a few dollars more than the flat bed machines i was looking at.

The Yamata machine you show is a lighter-duty machine. You might see it compared to heavier class heads because of its cylinder bed, but it's not a 441-type and doesn't have the same capabilities. The lift, for example, is only about 1/2", the needle bar stroke is shorter, the components are lighter, and can't sew heavier threads than 207. If its capacities meet your needs, by all means go for it - they're a lot less money than a 441 type - but if I were looking for a lighter machine, I'd also look at the Juki DSC 240.

Bill

[Roger]

thanks bill,

i know it's a lighter machine but, comparable to the flat bed machines i am looking at.

i would think the cylinder machine would be a bit more versitle but, being new to sewing machines in general i am relying what ever input i can get.

price is the biggest issue at the moment. i need to get something and get to using it then i will look to move up.

[Art]

Hi Roger,

If you are even thinking of doing bags boxes or purses, get a cylinder arm. There are so many times you have to tilt something to sew it and with a flat bed you just can't do that.

Art

thanks bill,

i know it's a lighter machine but, comparable to the flat bed machines i am looking at.

i would think the cylinder machine would be a bit more versitle but, being new to sewing machines in general i am relying what ever input i can get.

price is the biggest issue at the moment. i need to get something and get to using it then i will look to move up.

[Roger]

Hi Roger,

If you are even thinking of doing bags boxes or purses, get a cylinder arm. There are so many times you have to tilt something to sew it and with a flat bed you just can't do that.

Art

thanks art! that is what i needed to know.

[bruce johnson]

Beeza,

And you can always get a table with a cut out for the cylinder arm to make it a flatbed machine. Some suppliers offer them as an optional accessory. I made mine bigger from plywood, and got the folding table leg set from the hardware store. It sits about 5" lower that the top of the arm. That works for sewing gusseted things like saddlebags and ropebags. If I need the table flush to the top, I slip sections of PVC pipe over the bottom of the legs to raise it up. My wife gets credit for that tip - she saw it on HGTV or one of those satellite channels. I did the same thing to raise my cutting table, $2 worth of PVC saves $$ bottles of Aleve from bending over slightly. PVC ergonomics.

[bcurrier]

thanks bill,

i know it's a lighter machine but, comparable to the flat bed machines i am looking at.

i would think the cylinder machine would be a bit more versitle but, being new to sewing machines in general i am relying what ever input i can get.

price is the biggest issue at the moment. i need to get something and get to using it then i will look to move up.

If unease is part of the decision - whether it's repairs, general support, setup, applications, whatever - then your best bet is to find a good local supplier of industrial equipment that can support you. Consult with them on your proposed uses and buy what they carry and recommend. Industrial equipment is not only specialized, it tend to lack flexibility as a result. If you don't know how to deal with that (mostly meaning adjustments) you'll need local support. There's plenty of posts here and elsewhere that will attest to that - typically lots of frustration about broken needles, timing problems, messy and broken stitches, and that sort of thing.

Bill

[Dink]

I use all adler machines and have been very happy with them though they are more costly. If you are still just looking check out www.oldcowpoke.com he has many machines of all types. Though I have not gotten a machine from him I did get a clicker and it was everything he claimed it to be.

Dink

[Roger]

I use all adler machines and have been very happy with them though they are more costly. If you are still just looking check out www.oldcowpoke.com he has many machines of all types. Though I have not gotten a machine from him I did get a clicker and it was everything he claimed it to be.

Dink

price is my one and only issue at this point. i just tried the link and it says that it's expired.