French skiver v Japanese skiver

[Jigga]

Hi all,

I’m a total newbie. Just looking for what tools to buy, I have not even purchased any leather yet.

I have started to purchase some basic tools. In the future I will be looking to make small items such as card holders, wallets, etc,

My question is should I purchase a French style skiver which I understand is easier to master, or a Japanese style knife which I understand takes mote practice to skive with or buy neither and just concentrate on learning how to  stitch and how to master edging techniques first.

Sorry if this question has been asked previously.

Looking forward to learning more about leather crafting.

Edited April 13, 2024 by Jigga

[toxo]

29 minutes ago, Jigga said:

Hi all,

I’m a total newbie. Just looking for what tools to buy, I have not even purchased any leather yet.

I have started to purchase some basic tools. In the future I will be looking to make small items such as card holders, wallets, etc,

My question is should I purchase a French style skiver which I understand is easier to master, or a Japanese style knife which I understand takes mote practice to skive with or buy neither and just concentrate on learning how to  stitch and how to master edging techniques first.

Sorry if this question has been asked previously.

Looking forward to learning more about leather crafting.

The purists would say the Japanese. As you say The French is easier to use by far as long as you're on the flat. The two wings stop you from digging in making it fairly easy to thin down a piece of leather. Different story when tilted on an edge, just needs more care. Some use the Japanese for cutting as well especially alongside a template. I would advise you buy both but the best advice is to buy the best you can afford. With cutting tools that means better steel will hold an edge for longer but if budget is involved I would say if starting out and many tools are on the horizon, buying cheapER will give you a chance to work out what works for you. Buying best and vintage will surely come along later.

[Jigga]

Thanks for the quick response. As I’m just starting out do you think it would be better to forget skiving for now and concentrate on getting stitching and edges right first before I think about learning to skive. Or should I try and learn the skiving skill in parallel to stitching and edge work?

I have ordered a couple of reasonable quality stitching irons and an edge beveler so I’m thinking of trying to get the hang of these first before buying any skiving equipment.

.

Edited April 13, 2024 by Jigga

[TomE]

Learning to sharpen the tools is part of learning to use them. Another reason to start with modestly priced tools. I have enjoyed using CS Osborne tools once I learned how to sharpen them.  Like most tools, they need some sharpening when new to work correctly.  Stohlman’s book on Leather Tools has some good tips. This cheap Japanese style skiving knife works surprisingly well once it is sharp. https://a.co/d/cuO9tG1

[toxo]

2 hours ago, Jigga said:

Thanks for the quick response. As I’m just starting out do you think it would be better to forget skiving for now and concentrate on getting stitching and edges right first before I think about learning to skive. Or should I try and learn the skiving skill in parallel to stitching and edge work?

I have ordered a couple of reasonable quality stitching irons and an edge beveler so I’m thinking of trying to get the hang of these first before buying any skiving equipment.

.

Forgive me for saying but you seem to be coming at this from the wrong angle. Before even thinking about skiving you need to think about what you want to make. That in turn will dictate to some extent what sort of leather you will be working with. The most expensive leather is usually veg tan because you can do everything with it. I comes from hard and thick to soft and thin and everything in between but that's not the be all and end all. When you see people skiving on YouTube it's usually veg tan because it's relatively easy compared to chrome tan leather. To begin with, before you even think about stuff like tooling and carving you should think about chrome tan.  It comes in all colours so you don't have to mess with dying. It comes in all thicknesses so you don't need to skive which is just as well because skiving thin chrome tan is something you don't want to get anywhere near. what you want to make will also give you some idea about needle/thread size/colour, not all thread brands come in all the colours. Make haste slowly my friend.

[fredk]

Two very different tools for different jobs

I would say a French Skiver and a Super Skiver. Two different tool but of more use

[zuludog]

I like Japanese Leather Knives, also known as a Japanese Skiving Knife; I use them for both cutting and skiving. They're not so easy to find in Britain since Etsy have a ban on selling any kind of knives in the UK, but Crafts By Little Bear have a few mid priced ones that will do the job

You can find the JLK listed by Tom E for about £10 and it's surprisingly good for the money, but it needs a lot of work & sharpening to get it into a decent state 

You will need to get them very sharp - a diamond stone and fine abrasive paper are easy to start with, and The Scary Sharp System from Workshop Heaven is good. A full system is expensive, but the sample pack is only about £10 and will be good enough for these small knives, just find your own sheet of glass or porcelain tile

Also make your own strop, there are loads of YT videos and green chromium dioxide compound is as good as any

Play around with the Search Box on YouTube for JLKs, skiving, sharpening, making a strop and so on; follow the suggestions, watch a few, and you'll get the idea . This is a start -

 

Edited April 14, 2024 by zuludog

[fredk]

Deviation; a total ban of sending bladed articles though the UK post comes into affect soon. We might have to get independent couriers to carry them at their high rates of carriage

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Royal-Mail-to-ban-shipping-of-ALL-bladed-items-from-22nd-April/td-p/7572763#:~:text=IMPORTANT NOTICE%3A From 22 April,from the Royal Mail network.

Edited April 14, 2024 by fredk

[toxo]

The Japanese can be a formidable tool in the right hands but they do need to be scary sharp. I keep telling myself that I'm ok with sharpening but in truth I can get most tools to a state where they work but it's not often that's scary. Thank god I have a bell skiver.

Re; the French skiver I forgot to say it's the only hand tool that will skive a whole piece rather than just the edges.

[toxo]

13 minutes ago, fredk said:

Deviation; a total ban of sending bladed articles though the UK post comes into affect soon. We might have to get independent couriers to carry them at their high rates of carriage

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Royal-Mail-to-ban-shipping-of-ALL-bladed-items-from-22nd-April/td-p/7572763#:~:text=IMPORTANT NOTICE%3A From 22 April,from the Royal Mail network.

Good heads up Fred. Yet another example of Royal Mail forever increasing prices for less and less service.

[Jigga]

Thank you to all that have taken time to respond to my question. Taking into consideration the responses and me thinking about it further I have decided to wait before purchasing a skiver.

I’m going to concentrate on learning how to use the tools I have already ordered and practice stitching, cutting and edge dressing before deciding what other tools to purchase in the future.

I will study YT videos and no doubt raise lots of questions on this forum.

Thanks again.

[Sprocket]

On 4/14/2024 at 1:49 PM, Jigga said:

Thank you to all that have taken time to respond to my question. Taking into consideration the responses and me thinking about it further I have decided to wait before purchasing a skiver.

I’m going to concentrate on learning how to use the tools I have already ordered and practice stitching, cutting and edge dressing before deciding what other tools to purchase in the future.

I will study YT videos and no doubt raise lots of questions on this forum.

Thanks again.

That's a good approach - As a n00b here too I've done pretty much the same - I've studied a lot of vids and looked at a lot of projects, made a large list and started focusing on a project to learn stuff.  As far as stitching goes, the vids by Nigel Armitage are excellent - the recent series on saddle stitching gives a lot of "why" and also "when" which can be more important than just "how".

I use a Japanese style knife a lot and for lots more than just skiving - vs a French style skiver that is something of a dedicated purpose.  I'm eyeing a Barnsley knife as one of my next tool investments - they are UK based...

Advise I was given (as mentioned above), and see the value in, was to pick a project - gather tools, etc and build it.  A notebook cover or wallet to practice all things hand stitching were a couple I did.  Dog leads for belt making, etc. - again, practicing the strap cutting, edging and cutting slots for braids, hole punching for rivets, etc.  Right now I'm working on projects that are laced together vs stitched - I very much enjoy the doing and getting the results I want from the projects.  An "Ah-ha!" moment when the lessons learned from stitching vids gets applied to the lacing - my work looks so much better since I started, mostly due to applying what I've gleaned from literally hours of watching vids.

Good luck and show off your progress.

[jcuk]

34 minutes ago, Sprocket said:

I use a Japanese style knife a lot and for lots more than just skiving - vs a French style skiver that is something of a dedicated purpose.  I'm eyeing a Barnsley knife as one of my next tool investments - they are UK based..

What kind of Barnsley Knife they have many for sale.

[dikman]

Jigga, that was going to be my suggestion, learn the basics first. You don't have to be able to skive to make things. 

[Sprocket]

On 4/19/2024 at 11:24 AM, jcuk said:

What kind of Barnsley Knife they have many for sale.

One of these:  https://www.georgebarnsleyandsons.co.uk/product-page/japanese-skiving-knife

I already have one of these and like it very much:  https://www.georgebarnsleyandsons.co.uk/product-page/half-head-knife

[jcuk]

14 minutes ago, Sprocket said:

One of these:  https://www.georgebarnsleyandsons.co.uk/product-page/japanese-skiving-knife

I already have one of these and like it very much:  https://www.georgebarnsleyandsons.co.uk/product-page/half-head-knife

The one you have is plenty save your money, learn to use it the right way and you will wonder why you ever felt the need to own or need a Japanese knife or French skiver. That single head knife will do what those two can do and more just needs practice in use and sharpening and stropping. Take a look at some good youtube clips on how to use and maintain one, have not got much time now but if you need or pointers to some good ones let me know because there are some awful and dangerous ones. 

Hope this helps

JCUK 

[Sprocket]

Thank you for responding to my post!

[Mablung]

8 hours ago, jcuk said:

The one you have is plenty save your money, learn to use it the right way and you will wonder why you ever felt the need to own or need a Japanese knife or French skiver. That single head knife will do what those two can do and more just needs practice in use and sharpening and stropping. Take a look at some good youtube clips on how to use and maintain one, have not got much time now but if you need or pointers to some good ones let me know because there are some awful and dangerous ones. 

Hope this helps

JCUK 

 

8 hours ago, Sprocket said:

Thank you for responding to my post!

Look at the tutorials on sharpening head knives in the Leather Tools and Sharpen It! subforums’ sticky threads. The chap who owns Leather Wranglers (can’t think of his name) does a video on which he demonstrates sharpening one of his knives. Probably the best video I’ve seen. Used his advice to get my vintage CS Osborne knife into scary sharp skiving shape. Learn to cut and skive with that single head knife, and you’ll be just fine. Not much you can’t do with a good head or round knife. 

[zuludog]

Have a look at YouTube videos by JH Leather, she is an excellent leatherworker, and her favourite type of knife appears to be a head knife, aka a half round knife. She uses a few different makes, including Barnsley.

She has videos on skiving and other techniques, and as  she makes various items  you see how well she uses a head knife, for both cutting & skiving.   

[DJole]

Without a round knife, I use both a Japanese style skiving knife (from Olfa, with the replaceable blades, which I just sharpen and strop), and a French style. I use them for different tasks.