Question on dyeing.

[Tophee]

   Hello, I just started doin some basic leather projects middle of last month. Bought a little $30 kit off amazon, bought some leather on sale online from Tandy. I started just making little keychain fobs. Just cutting em out, no designs at first just cut, dye, burnish and finish. I recently bought 2 brass leather stamps because I figured itd be easier to do that first than learning to carve patterns for now. I wet the leather, stamp the leather than proceed to dye it. Issue is, and sorry ahead of time I know this is a very beginner and maybe and obvious fix, but the pattern when I dye it is not visible after dying. What are some ways some of you stamp or emboss patterns in leather that make the pattern still noticeable but also able to get a good color on the leather? I was thinking not dying it at all, but the leather I use is very pale, I was thinking buying a much lighter color (I was useing Fiebings Moccasin Brown and Resolene as the top coat). I tried stamping another piece and using a fine paint brush to paint around the pattern and the stamped part not dyed but it looks visually weird. Thank you ahead of time for your answers. Also any other advice yall wanna give a beginner is welcome even if its not on this topic thank you.

[Mablung]

Do you mean there’s not much contrast that highlights the stamp?

[SUP]

You need to do antiquing. That is where you dye the leather one color, apply a resist and then apply an antiquing paste, which is essentially a darker dye. You rub in the antiquing dye so that it gets into the stamped parts and shows it up clearly.. Search for 'antiquing' on this forum. you will find plenty of threads providing specific instructions. 

If you don't want to go down that route, you can just apply neatsfoot oil or coconut oil (both lightly) and keep the leather pieces in the sun. That darkens the leather beautifully and the stamped patterns might be clear as well.

Edited April 15 by SUP

[Tophee]

2 hours ago, Mablung said:

Do you mean there’s not much contrast that highlights the stamp?

Yes

[Tophee]

2 hours ago, SUP said:

You need to do antiquing. That is where you dye the leather one color, apply a resist and then apply an antiquing paste, which is essentially a darker dye. You rub in the antiquing dye so that it gets into the stamped parts and shows it up clearly.. Search for 'antiquing' on this forum. you will find plenty of threads providing specific instructions. 

If you don't want to go down that route, you can just apply neatsfoot oil or coconut oil (both lightly) and keep the leather pieces in the sun. That darkens the leather beautifully and the stamped patterns might be clear as well.

Ill give it a search. Dyeing the leather atm just blends the stamp in with the rest so you cannot really see the stamped part unless you look at it from an angle. Wouldn't antiquing it just make it all blend to gether even more after dyeing the whole piece of leather?

[Tophee]

Maybe a picture will better describe what I am referring too since I am bad with words. The dye is dark so it pretty much blends everything in together, the stamp and all. I did try to not dye the stamp and paint brush around it. But did not look so good.

[Mablung]

51 minutes ago, Tophee said:

Ill give it a search. Dyeing the leather atm just blends the stamp in with the rest so you cannot really see the stamped part unless you look at it from an angle. Wouldn't antiquing it just make it all blend to gether even more after dyeing the whole piece of leather?

Antiquing is done after dyeing. 
 

There are a bunch of really helpful threads on here about everything dyeing and antiquing. Some people will do an overall background dye, then dye just the stamped/tooled area with another dye. Others use antique paste or even Sharpie markers. It depends on the look you want.

Antique paste can be a bit messy and involves some extra steps, but it does give a nice look to certain things. Have fun learning and experimenting with all this.

Look up The Leather Element videos Weaver Leathercraft puts on YouTube. The guy who presents them, Chuck Dorsett, has a couple on antiquing that I’ve found very helpful. 

Edited April 15 by Mablung

[NatesLeatherGds]

Oh - you're using a very dark dye -- often (not always) a lighter dye and you can see the contrast as well, if you apply it in certain ways, the deeper grooves/carving can take a bit more dye in sometimes and be just a bit darker than the rest. ymmv.

[Tophee]

3 minutes ago, NatesLeatherGds said:

Oh - you're using a very dark dye -- often (not always) a lighter dye and you can see the contrast as well, if you apply it in certain ways, the deeper grooves/carving can take a bit more dye in sometimes and be just a bit darker than the rest. ymmv.

Yeah, when choosing the first dye I was gonna buy I liked how this looked. But after getting the stamps and trying it, it didnt look as well. As suggested by Mablung and Sup I will look into antiqueing and also probably get a lighter dye. I am assuming this kind of dark dye I got would not be suited for what I am currently going for.

[Mablung]

5 minutes ago, Tophee said:

Yeah, when choosing the first dye I was gonna buy I liked how this looked. But after getting the stamps and trying it, it didnt look as well. As suggested by Mablung and Sup I will look into antiqueing and also probably get a lighter dye. I am assuming this kind of dark dye I got would not be suited for what I am currently going for.

If you want the stamp impressions to be more obviously visible due to contrast, a lighter dye will certainly help. Darker dyes are more forgiving of the application of multiple layers to cover streaks, blots, and other mistakes, but a great part of that depends on your application method, too. 
 

Leatherwork offers innumerable rabbit holes, of which this is only one. Welcome to the hobby!

[NatesLeatherGds]

1 minute ago, Mablung said:

Leatherwork offers innumerable rabbit holes, of which this is only one. Welcome to the hobby!

[Tophee]

4 minutes ago, Mablung said:

If you want the stamp impressions to be more obviously visible due to contrast, a lighter dye will certainly help. Darker dyes are more forgiving of the application of multiple layers to cover streaks, blots, and other mistakes, but a great part of that depends on your application method, too. 
 

Leatherwork offers innumerable rabbit holes, of which this is only one. Welcome to the hobby!

Doesn't scare me lol I welcome the learning. I just gotta find a purpose for my darker dye now, or learn the applications for it in any small projects I do in the future. Thank you all for your help!

[Mablung]

16 minutes ago, Tophee said:

Doesn't scare me lol I welcome the learning. I just gotta find a purpose for my darker dye now, or learn the applications for it in any small projects I do in the future. Thank you all for your help!

Happy to contribute what little I can. If I’m honest, I’ll tell you that the posts on this site are where I have learned most of what I know. There is sooo much to learn, and that’s part of the fun. You have the right attitude about it.

You can also thin the dye to make it a lighter brown. This notebook cover was done with a Fiebing’s Light Brown dye, but I thinned it with denatured alcohol, about 50/50 (editing to say: might have thinned it more like 40% dye, 60% alcohol). I’ve done a couple knife sheaths with the same dye without thinning it—those turned out about the same color as the piece you showed. Yet another knife sheath was done closer to 50/50 or maybe 60/40 and got it darker than the notebook cover but lighter than the other sheaths. Thinning it made all the difference. Just another aspect to experiment with. 

Edited April 16 by Mablung

[NatesLeatherGds]

20 minutes ago, Tophee said:

I just gotta find a purpose for my darker dye now, or learn the applications for it in any small projects I do in the future. Thank you all for your help!

Yes, plenty of uses for dark dyes though, so not wasted certainly. Try this - even with the darker dye - apply it to your stamped surface, then quickly wipe excess off the top layer (the higher portion of your stamped item). Practice on timing and speed on your item when wiping. (do practice runs on bits that you can afford to toss if you don't like the result).  And post more pictures of your progress!

[toxo]

I think the key might be in the casing. You mention that you wet the leather. Wet leather won't give as crisp an image as damp leather. Depending on the leather try dry stamping first. If not sharp enough just dampen just enough to soften the crust. When applying dye try using something flat like a sponge. A paintbrush will get in everywhere which might not be what you want if you want contrast.

[Tophee]

12 minutes ago, Mablung said:

Happy to contribute what little I can. If I’m honest, I’ll tell you that the posts on this site are where I have learned most of what I know. There is sooo much to learn, and that’s part of the fun. You have the right attitude about it.

You can also thin the dye to make it a lighter brown. This notebook cover was done with a Fiebing’s Light Brown dye, but I thinned it with denatured alcohol, about 50/50 (editing to say: might have thinned it more like 40% dye, 60% alcohol). I’ve done a couple knife sheaths with the same dye without thinning it—those turned out about the same color as the piece you showed. Yet another knife sheath was done closer to 50/50 or maybe 60/40 and got it darker than the notebook cover but lighter than the other sheaths. Thinning it made all the difference. Just another aspect to experiment with. 

That looks really good. Ill have to try thinning this dye out and seeing what I can get from it. Gonna be alot of little key fobs for me till I can get to where I wanna be. 

7 minutes ago, NatesLeatherGds said:

Yes, plenty of uses for dark dyes though, so not wasted certainly. Try this - even with the darker dye - apply it to your stamped surface, then quickly wipe excess off the top layer (the higher portion of your stamped item). Practice on timing and speed on your item when wiping. (do practice runs on bits that you can afford to toss if you don't like the result).  And post more pictures of your progress!

I shall try to post more of my projects as I go through them. Ill certainly give that method a try as well.

[Tophee]

2 minutes ago, toxo said:

I think the key might be in the casing. You mention that you wet the leather. Wet leather won't give as crisp an image as damp leather. Depending on the leather try dry stamping first. If not sharp enough just dampen just enough to soften the crust. When applying dye try using something flat like a sponge. A paintbrush will get in everywhere which might not be what you want if you want contrast.

Thank you, makes sense that if the leather is too wet it wont stamp right. I applied my dye using an applicator that I would ring out a little bit so it doesnt just puddle everywhere. I wet the leather using an empty hand sanitizer bottle I filled with water and sprayed it on there.

[SUP]

About stamping, you could spray water just sufficiently to penetrate no more than half way through the layer being stamped. Just look at the edges to get an idea. The back should remain dry.  It works for me.

For a spray bottle, I find that the delayed sprayer that Tandy sells is really useful. It gives more control.

When dyeing, this is what I do. It might help.

Stamped or not, I let the leather dry completely,

A thin layer of Neatsfoot oil. I let that dry completely for a few hours at least.

Apply a diluted dye. Dry. Buff lightly to remove surface dye.

Repeat dyeing step if darker color needed.

Buff.

A resist like Pro-resist. A resist prevents further dyeing of the leather. So I try to keep it out of the stamped areas. Dry.

Finally, the antiquing paste, rubbed into the stamped sections and then wiped off to remove it completely from the rest of the leather but left in place in the stamped depressions.

Dry.

Buff, and then apply a finish like Satin Shene.

You can try to do a reverse if you have a light hand, if you want a really dark background. This is where the stamped sections remain undyed or light and the rest of the leather is dyed darker. This is tricky to do though.

There are threads for both techniques on this forum, from people who are much more experienced, who can give much more valuable insight. 

For your darker dye, you could contrast with light thread - beautiful stitching can be as decorative as stamps.

 

 

[chuck123wapati]

for small pieces like that  try dip dyeing them first then stamping as the leather gets to the proper stage. 

[chuck123wapati]

or block dye them, in this case stamp first then dye. 

[fredk]

You don't have to dye before using Antiquing. I often apply it without dyeing

[TonyV]

All valid advise above.  There are so many techniques available and you have options to choose and practice with.  Fobs are great for learning new skills and methods and I'll add one:

Have you tried buffing your finish as the last step?  Shining up the outermost face of the piece can make the stamping really stand out.

[Tophee]

Thank you all for your advise. Atm I only have resolene, I am unsure if that can be used as a resist for any antiqueing paste I would get. So I would have to get either tan kote or pro resist as I see alot of people use from the posts I have seen which at this moment I do not wanna get too much stuff. I cannot dip unfortuantely, limited space, not buying dye in large amounts yet. But I have seen more than a few people mention dipping their leather pieces, at least for pro dyes from fiebings. I did attempt to buff the finish with a micro cloth. It didn't really seem like it did much to the piece I posted a picture of. But I have other little pieces I will be making once I get a lighter color dye so I will do it on those as well and see. The other night I tried diluting this Mocassin Brown dye and using a scrap piece to see a color change, it didnt change the color still was very dark. So at least with the dye I have, diluting seems to just stretch it out not change the color. I diluted the dye 50/50 with alcohol. Ill be picking up a lighter dye and antique paste, still debating on getting pro resist or tan kote, unless I can use resolene as a resist than I will use that for now. 

[Mablung]

1 hour ago, Tophee said:

Thank you all for your advise. Atm I only have resolene, I am unsure if that can be used as a resist for any antiqueing paste I would get. So I would have to get either tan kote or pro resist as I see alot of people use from the posts I have seen which at this moment I do not wanna get too much stuff. I cannot dip unfortuantely, limited space, not buying dye in large amounts yet. But I have seen more than a few people mention dipping their leather pieces, at least for pro dyes from fiebings. I did attempt to buff the finish with a micro cloth. It didn't really seem like it did much to the piece I posted a picture of. But I have other little pieces I will be making once I get a lighter color dye so I will do it on those as well and see. The other night I tried diluting this Mocassin Brown dye and using a scrap piece to see a color change, it didnt change the color still was very dark. So at least with the dye I have, diluting seems to just stretch it out not change the color. I diluted the dye 50/50 with alcohol. Ill be picking up a lighter dye and antique paste, still debating on getting pro resist or tan kote, unless I can use resolene as a resist than I will use that for now. 

Resolene should work as a resist. Test it on a scrap piece to be sure. With any resist, it’s important to not leave the antique paste on too long. Most of those coatings aren’t absolutely “antique proof,” if you will, so it is important to wipe the antique off quickly if you only want it to stay in the stamp grooves. Otherwise, it dries in place and becomes more difficult to remove. 

[Northmount]

@Tophee Moved to Tooling, Stamping & Carving Leather > Dyes, Antiques, Stains, Glues, Waxes, Finishes and Conditioners