Cartridge Belts: Curved or Straight?

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

Hello!

I have a question about cartridge belts for Victorian era/old West styles.

I've heard some people say that the belts fit a lot better if they are pre-curved. Some people say it doesn't matter.

I've done the pre-curve by making a sort of wooden template, wetting a straight cut blank, and letting it dry in the template… and it took the curve and it works fine.

However, my concern is cutting the cartridge loops on a curved belt. I have a straight cartridge loophole template, and it seems overly complicated trying to get those loops cut on a curve.

I figure another option could be making the belt straight and then doing the curve by wetting it after the loops are on there and leaving the cartridges in the loops to prevent any warping.
However, this seems like it would create its own set of complications with the lining, etc.

Has anybody done this?

I also would like to make some money-belts or better said money cartridge belts, and I'm wondering if it's the same deal with that.
I tend to think that making all of them straight is fine and then, maybe, wetting them and adding a curve after it's all done will work fine also, but I've never done that before and don't want to reinvent the wheel.
Looking forward to your input.
Thanks.

[Cattleman]

First off... Pre-stretch the straps used to create the cartridge loops, BEFORE building the belt. Then once you have finished the construction of the belt, but before oiling and finishing, buckle it tightly around a 5 gallon bucket or a 30 gallon drum (with a cartridge in each loop) while its slightly moist. Allow it completely dry, then remove to apply oil and finish products.

Edited yesterday at 12:59 AM by Cattleman
Typo

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

36 minutes ago, Cattleman said:

First off... Pre-stretch the straps used to create the cartridge loops, BEFORE building the belt. Then once you have finished the construction of the belt, but before oiling and finishing, buckle it tightly around a 5 gallon bucket or a 30 gallon drum (with a cartridge in each loop) while its slightly moist. Allow it completely dry, then remove to apply oil and finish products.

That seems like a helpful technique, but what about the curve?

Seems this technique would be detrimental to a pre-added curve, and visa versa.

A moneybelt wouldn't have a curve, so this seems to make a case against it.

Any input on whether the curved belt really makes a difference?

Also, adding the stain etc. at the end will affect the stitching color.

[Cattleman]

I usually stitch those type of items black... So I dont have to worry about staining the stitching. As to whether the curve makes a difference... I think that really varies client to client.

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

4 minutes ago, Cattleman said:

I usually stitch those type of items black... So I dont have to worry about staining the stitching. As to whether the curve makes a difference... I think that really varies client to client.

That would work.

I do like the lighter stitching though.

Seems like the pre-curve would be more for thick, stiff belts.

[Mablung]

The pre-curve bit is a lot more about creating a shortcut around the break-in process for a standard gun belt going through one’s belt loops. I doubt strongly that it makes a considerable difference for a separate cartridge gun belt, though I could be wrong. I’d not worry about it, personally. 
 

Now to fit the loops along the belt, if you go ahead and pre-curve it, I’d be more inclined to simply leave off the loops along the middle couple inches of the belt. That’s where the curve will be, so just leave those out, unless it’s critical that the loops cover the whole surface. 

[Dwight]

John Bianchi has for me the last word in gun holster making . . . seeing as how he more or less invented the fast draw concept . . . 

In his video he shows to cut the blanks out of one piece of leather . . . with the curve cut in it.

He also shows that on I believe it was about a 42 inch belt  . . . that the curve was a bow about 6 inches deep at the center . . . with the two ends of the belt being the ends of the bow.

Those who make straight belts don't take into consideration that men generally wear their britches belted at their lower waist . . . and the gun belt goes below that on their hips.  Many guys don't like the idea that they have a curve in the profile of their butt  . . . but they do.  They are a lot bigger around 3 inches below the belt . . . than they are at the belt.  Hence . . . thee curved belt which makes up for the butt curve.

Wide belts cut straight will be tighter at the bottom than the top . . . and if not cinched up . . . one good sneeze and the  gunbelt is on the ground.

Cut em straight if you want to  . . . I've followed John's directions for over 20 years . . . never had but one come back . . . he ordered a 53 inch . . . it took a couple months to get it in the system and out to him . . . by that time he needed a 56 inch.  Thankfully I was able to just barely change the tongue and he was happy.  Never had one problem with them falling down.

Your attitude may vary.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

The Bianchi method seems valid, though I have owned two Bianchi cartridge belts that had no curve.

That being said... did Bianchi ever explain cutting the cartridge loops on a curved belt?

Unless it' as simple as cutting and adding the loops and then giving the curve by wetting and forming the belt...

[Dwight]

This is how I do the loops on a curved belt.  The little tool that looks like a T is simply two pieces of 1/4 " plywood glued together at 90 degrees.

On it . . . there is an arrow you can see jut to the right of the up and down bar.  The distance from the bar to the arrow is 5/8 of an inch . . . the proper spacing for 44 and 45 cartridges.

On the up and down bar are two lines that come out to the edge . . . they indicate the length the hole needs to be.  I take an ink pen and draw a line from one line down to the next . . . while my arrow is pointing to the line I drew last.  When I get done marking the lines . . . I get my slotting tool . . . and go to work.  

The line is made just the length of the slotting tool . . . so I put the top of the slot at the top of the line . . . bring the bottom down so it is centered . . . and I hammer a hole in the leather.  Repeat until the proper number of holes are done.  For modern six shooters I usually do 24 . . . for the old fashioned ones without a transfer bar . . . I do 25.

The punch is made from a piece of 1/2 inch EMT conduit . . . smashed in a vise . . . and a 1/8 inch piece of flat stock steel forced into the hole to make both sides parallel . . . took it to a belt sander and sharpened the outside . . . took a round file and took off the burrs on the inside . . . have no idea of the number of cartridge holes this rascal has punched.

But anyway . . . that is how I do it . . . never any complaints so far.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[CdK]

10 hours ago, Dwight said:

This is how I do the loops on a curved belt.  The little tool that looks like a T is simply two pieces of 1/4 " plywood glued together at 90 degrees.

On it . . . there is an arrow you can see jut to the right of the up and down bar.  The distance from the bar to the arrow is 5/8 of an inch . . . the proper spacing for 44 and 45 cartridges.

On the up and down bar are two lines that come out to the edge . . . they indicate the length the hole needs to be.  I take an ink pen and draw a line from one line down to the next . . . while my arrow is pointing to the line I drew last.  When I get done marking the lines . . . I get my slotting tool . . . and go to work.  

The line is made just the length of the slotting tool . . . so I put the top of the slot at the top of the line . . . bring the bottom down so it is centered . . . and I hammer a hole in the leather.  Repeat until the proper number of holes are done.  For modern six shooters I usually do 24 . . . for the old fashioned ones without a transfer bar . . . I do 25.

The punch is made from a piece of 1/2 inch EMT conduit . . . smashed in a vise . . . and a 1/8 inch piece of flat stock steel forced into the hole to make both sides parallel . . . took it to a belt sander and sharpened the outside . . . took a round file and took off the burrs on the inside . . . have no idea of the number of cartridge holes this rascal has punched.

But anyway . . . that is how I do it . . . never any complaints so far.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

Simple and elegant tool & method described here, I’ll lodge this in my mind if I venture into doing this kind of project.

[Littlef]

10 hours ago, Dwight said:

This is how I do the loops on a curved belt.  The little tool that looks like a T is simply two pieces of 1/4 " plywood glued together at 90 degrees.

On it . . . there is an arrow you can see jut to the right of the up and down bar.  The distance from the bar to the arrow is 5/8 of an inch . . . the proper spacing for 44 and 45 cartridges.

On the up and down bar are two lines that come out to the edge . . . they indicate the length the hole needs to be.  I take an ink pen and draw a line from one line down to the next . . . while my arrow is pointing to the line I drew last.  When I get done marking the lines . . . I get my slotting tool . . . and go to work.  

The line is made just the length of the slotting tool . . . so I put the top of the slot at the top of the line . . . bring the bottom down so it is centered . . . and I hammer a hole in the leather.  Repeat until the proper number of holes are done.  For modern six shooters I usually do 24 . . . for the old fashioned ones without a transfer bar . . . I do 25.

The punch is made from a piece of 1/2 inch EMT conduit . . . smashed in a vise . . . and a 1/8 inch piece of flat stock steel forced into the hole to make both sides parallel . . . took it to a belt sander and sharpened the outside . . . took a round file and took off the burrs on the inside . . . have no idea of the number of cartridge holes this rascal has punched.

But anyway . . . that is how I do it . . . never any complaints so far.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

wow, that's a slick simple solution to follow the curve.  Thank you for showing this Dwight!

[Dwight]

Cdk . . . Littlef . . . now you got the crown secrets . . . use em wisely

 

May God bless,

Dwight