Adler 205-370 help — Random Bottom Twisted Stitch

[adventureleather]

Hello! I am hoping to have some skilled eyes to look at my stitches on an Adler 205-370 style machine. 
 

I have these random twisted bottom stitches from time to time. Or sometimes after stitching perfect the twist will pull the knot out. I am not sure what can be causing this. 
 

I have retimed the machine many times looking for smooth movement with weaver timing device. Does this on both needles I have 24 and 25. 
 

Any ideas? Thanks for the help! 

[kgg]

5 hours ago, adventureleather said:

I have these random twisted bottom stitches from time to time.

my first couple of thoughts are:

i) bobbin installed backwards

ii) bobbin wound with thread that didn't have a chance to uncoil properly

iii) incorrect bobbin tension. Here is a good video, check out from the 9:43 minute mark.

kgg

 

 

[shoepatcher]

What size thread you using?     Is it bonded nylon or polyester?

glenn

[adventureleather]

4 hours ago, kgg said:

my first couple of thoughts are:

i) bobbin installed backwards

ii) bobbin wound with thread that didn't have a chance to uncoil properly

iii) incorrect bobbin tension. Here is a good video, check out from the 9:43 minute mark.

kgg

 

 

Thanks kgg, I have seen Uwe’s video over and over now haha. Keep trying to see if I missed something. I had had 441 clone and 1342 clone before but never a 205 clone. Even watch the Weaver ones too. I re timed tonight with needle bar adjustments, I think I have it in a good spot. I re-worked the tension and got some good results. I noticed the twist at some points still. 

 

I wonder if it is something with the winding, hook (comes out tight some times) or just getting the tension balance. How tight would you wind 277 thread on a bobbin? My hook is also missing the inner spring, I wonder if that has any place for making it even or just to help take out the bobbin. Thanks for the feedback. 

[adventureleather]

3 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

What size thread you using?     Is it bonded nylon or polyester?

glenn

Thanks Glenn. It is Vinymo #1 thread, bonded polyester. I believe it is closer to 277 in size. 

[adventureleather]

It seems I have fixed and solved my own problem so I wanted to update this post incase someone searches and has a similar issue. With the help of old posts I have added some solutions to solve my problems too. And with respects to the take up spring, thank you to Uwe and Wiz for old posts on that topic. 

It seemed like my machine was not liking the thread. With a bit of an ear for how a machine should sound it did sound off to me. The weaver timing device came in the mail and it was a bit help to get the timing perfect and repeatable. Along with Uwe's stitching video that helped me guage a good timed machine. Although with variances of course to mine. 

Timing - this one took some time and many efforts to find the right balance. I ultimately set the needle bar to the eye of the bottom needle just above the angle ridge on the deflector. I then set the timing device to this spot, went up to the next spot of the needle bar for the device, and adjusted the hook. I have gotten goo stitched here for 23 to 27 needles I use.

Needle placement in the deflector and guard - I didn't know how to do this one but I took a guess. There are 2 locking collars on either end of the timing shaft. 2 bolts in each. Loosen both collars and the timing shaft has a few mm of play. With the plate and dog off, you can put your largest needle you'll us in, and get the perfect spacing here. Push the collar in while holding the defecltor piece and tighten. It's a bit fidly. Now with the collar closest to the needle tight, the other one needs to be pushed in against the inner wall (body of the machine side underneath) and tighten. This locks the shaft from moving side to side and holds the deflector in place. Here you'll want to make sure the needle and hook pass nicely, and the needle can't be pushed in to the right if the material moves, jamming the hook into the needle. I pushed on my needle and moved the flywheel to ensure nothing could crash, but still have fluid movement. Now the largest 27 needle can pass nicely helping make the stitch. I am using all 3 sizes, so it is possible to hit the smaller needle with the hook if it moves since the machine is now set for the 27, something to keep in mind while sewing. 

Those 2 adjustments helped make a nice stitch. But I was stabbing the thread on the way down. 

 

Check spring tension and placement - thanks to an old discussion on this with Wiz and Uwe giving some info, it occurred to me the rule of the check spring. To keep the thread tight around the hook, and also that the thread should not have any slack until the needle hits the material. My thread had plenty of slack on the way down. So I moved the check spring bar all the way down. There is also a small Allen bolt to the left of the the secondary tensioner, loosen this and you can turn the thread bar further back over the discs. This will take away slack as well if more is needed with the bar down. And finally some more tension on the spring, locking bolt located inside the head to the left info on Weaver's dvd videos. 

Walking feet - last thing after all these adjustments is to make sure your feet are in good movement. So I set my need to just enter the foot hole, loosen the two Allen bolts on the back of the head (Uwe's video helps here) push the feet down, tighten and check movement. You can check your height too when the outside foot as at its highest. 

Last thing was to dial in tension. I also don't wind my bobbins too tight to allow them to unravel easier. 

 

After all that I am getting some great results and the machine and hook even sound more happy by sound. I am no expert, just from my little experience so don't take every word as proper instruction. Hope this helps another novice diagnose their Adler 205 style machine if you have any issues like I did.