difference between the red & white Jewelers Rouge

[craftsman827]

Does anyone know the difference between the red & white Jewelers Rouge, for stropping swivel knives.

Is one better than the other ?

Would like to know anyones preference.

All welcome

[CitizenKate]

I recently switched to the red rouge, and I like it much better. The red rouge is recommended for jewelers; it produces more of a high shine on the metal than the white rouge does. I can get my knife tips very sharp with considerably less effort than I used with the white stuff.

Kate

[rdb]

The white stuff seems softer, and it takes more to lay down on a piece of leather. The red stuff seems harder, and goes down better. It seems to strop better too

My opinion, if you can find red, use that.

Of course, I was wrong once ...lol

[whinewine]

Red is predominately iron oxide (rust). White is (I believe) predominately aluminum oxide. There are others, green (Chromium oxide, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, & I certainly could be, at this point), yellow & others, all with different chemical compositions , some of which are better for polishing certain materials and not others. While all these 'rouges' share the same name, only red rouge is truly 'rouge' (from the french, 'rouge'= red).

Edited December 13, 2007 by whinewine

[HorsehairBraider]

As it happens I am a jeweler and work with both. This is what I can tell you, but remember - I actually use this stuff on jewelry, on a polishing wheel (hooked to an arbor, hooked to a motor and spinning at high speed) and do not do the sort of work you do.

Rouge is red, and is used for polishing because it is very fine, and gives a high luster to gold and silver. This is partly because of it's color; it contains ferric oxide. Tiny amounts remain on the work but because of the red color are usually not offensive and actually give an attractive reddish glow. "White rouge" (it's not really rouge, rouge is a French word meaning red, so the white is simply a polishing compound) is a polishing compound that is more aggresive than rouge. By aggresive, I mean it will take off more metal than I would like while polishing, and do it more quickly. In extreme cases it can take off the detail in my work! However if you really need to cut down metal, a more aggresive compound than rouge is called for. I occasionally have a call to polish other metals, such as brass, bronze or steel, and therefore keep different polishing compounds around that are more aggresive than I would normally use on gold or silver.

Neither compound is "better". It just depends on the job you need to get done. If you need an aggresive compound, white is more aggresive. If you are doing a final polish to a mirror shine, rouge is probably a better choice. (But it might take a great deal of work, polishing a very hard metal like steel!) There are actually many different polishing compounds. I am currently using a black compound that is water soluble, because the background on my sterling pieces is black, and the black does not show up as much if there are tiny amounts left. I use it on a chamois wheel and achieve excellent results.

[gtwister09]

The names Buffing compound and polishing compound are generally used interchangeably and refer to fine abrasive fillers combined with greases which are formed into solid bars or liquid. Polishing Compounds are similar to sandpaper in that they are used from coarse to fine. A work piece that is severely scratched may need to be sanded down with sandpaper before polishing. Once the scratch depth is minimal on the work piece it is advised to start with the coarsest compound that is applicable to the material being polished. From there one should than move down to the next compound and so on until the desired finish is achieved.

NOTE: It may not always be necessary to start with the coarsest and go all the way to the finest. This will depend on the condition of the material being polished.

Jewelers rouge or red rouge is the finest compound originally developed by the jewelry trade for buffing precious metals. Blue all-purpose polishing compound is one of the most versatile compounds available and can be used on plastic and all metals.

I have also attached a PDF of materials and compunds (from coarse to fine) that you might find useful.

Regards,

Ben

Materials___Compunds.pdf

Materials___Compunds.pdf

[Billy P]

I use both the Red and white rouge sticks. I bought both from Tandy years ago. Tandy used to only sell the red rough sticks, but then they started with the white for some reason. I've found that the red is more abrasive than the white. I keep to stropping sticks close by and will sometimes hit the blades with the red and then a few strokes with the white. That gives me a really sharp edge on my blades. Another thing is for my rough strops I usually make them using Crocus cloth. That is something that is almost like a smooth sand paper. When I did construction work, most of the time I worked in Maintenance Support for the contractors. The Crocus Cloth was used to help get a really good polished finish on some of the Valve Seats, and misc. Turbine parts. Anyway I've found it to be good stuff and I hope that I can find some more sometime soon as I'm down to just 3 or 4 sheets now. Some of the other compounds named are good to. Some people swear by something else that is called Yellow something. I haven't used it, but the ones I've heard from that use it I trust that are right as they are really good leatherworkers/saddle makers. Anyway I hope this helps a little, Kindest Regards Billy P

[craftsman827]

This turned into a great tutorial. Plenty of good info on rouge etc.

WHAT is good for stropping CERAMIC Swivle knife Blade ??

[Skipknives]

I can't answer about ceramic blades,,,but as a knife maker I love a compound called "ZAM" it is a green blend (not greasy like other greens),,after I a make the cutting edge I switch to a 700 grit belt to dress the edge,,this leaves a fine "wire" on the very edge.

then i load a soft buffing wheel with ZAM and strop the edge. (Not trying to blow my own horn) after this is done the cutting edge i achieve is better then a new razor blade.

the soft buff has as much to do with the final edge as the compound does.

ZAM also polishes the "Clouds" out of stainless steel better then any other compound i have ever used,,including

pink-no scratch, white diamonds, and Red

PS; when polishing blades on a belt sander,,the 1,200 grits and 2,000 grits use to burn the steel quickly,,,now with ZAM in the belt i can push harder and hold the blade longer to the belts before cooling them.

Harbor fraight sells a small buff already on an arbor that can be chucked in a drill for stropping.

just my 2 cents

[rdb]

Good tip skipknives...

Here it is. The ad says it won't hurt jeweled stones. This might work on the ceramics?

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4244

[cjbleather]

I use both the Red and white rouge sticks. I bought both from Tandy years ago. Tandy used to only sell the red rough sticks, but then they started with the white for some reason. I've found that the red is more abrasive than the white. I keep to stropping sticks close by and will sometimes hit the blades with the red and then a few strokes with the white. That gives me a really sharp edge on my blades. Another thing is for my rough strops I usually make them using Crocus cloth. That is something that is almost like a smooth sand paper. When I did construction work, most of the time I worked in Maintenance Support for the contractors. The Crocus Cloth was used to help get a really good polished finish on some of the Valve Seats, and misc. Turbine parts. Anyway I've found it to be good stuff and I hope that I can find some more sometime soon as I'm down to just 3 or 4 sheets now. Some of the other compounds named are good to. Some people swear by something else that is called Yellow something. I haven't used it, but the ones I've heard from that use it I trust that are right as they are really good leatherworkers/saddle makers. Anyway I hope this helps a little, Kindest Regards Billy P

Billy I believe the compound that you are refering to is called Yellowstone. I am not sure where it got its name, but it is more peach color than yellow. I believe that this is a favorite of wood workers for sharpening their cutting tools. I have some and I think it is graet . I use it as a first go and then polish with Red Rouge. Since I started using this, I have improved my sharpening results. Carlb

[gtwister09]

Some additional information/terminology about buffing and polishing

Polishing - This generally denotes removal of material from the surface. This is generally accomplished with sandpaper. microfine grits and/or coarse compounds like black emery.

Buffing - Generally denotes a smoothing operation that produces high luster or mirror finishes. Usually buffing wheels and buffing compounds are used. It can be divided into two separate steps (1) cutting and (2) coloring.

As I stated earlier buffing and polishing compounds are generally used interchangeably. They refer to abrasive fillers that are usually combined with greases to form into solid bars or liquids. Yellowstone is generally a dry compound but it also comes in bar form. It is generally on the scale between white and red. It is close to the same level of fine as green which is generally used for stainless. I did not include it on the chart. Here's the levels from coarsest to finest -- Black Emery --> Brown Tripoli -->White Rouge --> Green Stainless --> Jewelers or Red Rogue. Then along comes Blue All Purpose.

Cut Buffing - The preliminary step to coloring usually with a coarser buffing compound. It removes scratches and smooths out the surface. Black emery is the coarsest and brown tripoli is next. Sometimes brown tripoli can be used to cut and color at the same time with softer metals like copper, brass and aluminum.

Color Buffing - This is the step that brings out the best or maximum shine. It produces the mirror like finish. As stated earlier brown tripoli can be a double-duty compound for the softer metals. White is used to color stainless, steel, brass, chromium and aluminum. Likewise green stainless can be used as well. Red rouge is used to produce the mirror finish on gold, silver, sterling, platinum and sometimes brass. As shown these are generally precious metals thereby getting it's name Jewelers rouge.

See the earlier chart for materials and compounds to use. Remember the cutting and coloring.

Ceramic Blades

I have used both the brown tivoli and blue general purpose on ceramic blades.

ZAM

I have only used ZAM on stainless to this point. However it states that it could be used on any material that green stainless bar is used upon. The brown tivoli was used to remove a slight scratch in the blade.

[Skipknives]

Qt-twister,,try the Zam on gold or stabilized wood and bone/antler or ironwoods,,then let me know,,

I'll bet you come over to the dark-side,,let me know

(the blade is ATS-34 the bolsters are 416 stainless handle is stabilized redwood

Edited December 14, 2007 by Skipknives

[gtwister09]

Skipknives,

Absolutely GORGEOUS! Great execution and design!

I will have to give it a whirl on some wood.

Thank you for the picture. Definitely worth a thousand words!

Regards,

Ben

[pete]

I just re-visited my book "the leatherworking handbook" mentioned the other day in a post as a good reference book. I was checking out the part about stopping and the author said to put the rouge on the FLESH side when making a strop.

I've seen that before but....

DOES ANYONE OUT THERE USE THE FLESH SIDE WHEN STROPPING???

[Skipknives]

yes Pete,,i do like using a razor strap then flip it over and repeat on the smooth side for a final dressing

PS: i found out that a scrap of Elk hyde will clean the left over "Gum/grease" from rouge off your swivel blade or any other blade quicker and easier then paper towel or cloth.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Skipknives