mauls & risk of rep motion injury

[Johanna]

Someone posted that they prefer a maul to a mallet. I do, too, for setting rivets and punching holes, but I'm told that mauls are not the best choice for carving because of the risk of rep motion injury. I wondered if anyone here has ever experienced any troubles with elbows, wrists or hands from leatherwork? How can these injuries be prevented? Are there things you can do to minimize the discomfort once the damage is done?

I shattered my right wrist in January 2004. I slipped on ice, fell on my bottom, and stuck my hand out for balance on the bounce. It took four nails to hold together after the surgery, and months of physical therapy. I have regained about 60% of the function in my hand, but I've lost quite a bit of the strength, and the ability to turn my wrist palm up. The folks who helped me were quite surprised at how strong my right hand used to be, but years of guitar playing and leatherwork (think hand sewing!) will do that. I'm pretty much a lefty now, and I have to make sure I don't overdo with this hand, or it swells and hurts and I can't stand it. The doc has decided that surgery can help, and it looks like after the holidays I'll be under the knife again. (Millimeters count in wrists, he said.) I'm hoping that some of the range of motion can be restored. Anyone have any good advice for me? No, I don't expect to be able to be doing leatherwork again, but I would like to be able to lace a checkbook if I feel like it. I would like to type with all my fingers too, but since I never did before the accident, I doubt I'll start now.

Johanna

[HorsehairBraider]

Sorry about the wrist! OUCH! And it's very hard when you have an injury that keeps reminding you about its presence. Here's hoping the surgery really helps, I have friends who have had the carpal tunnel surgery and it has worked amazingly well.

I've got both carpal tunnel and tendonitis in both hands/arms. What I have done is re-train myself on how I hold tools and how I use my hands as I work.

If I can avoid holding a tool between my thumb and first finger, I do it. I often hold tools between my first and second fingers, with my wrist bent backwards (NOT inwards) which may look peculiar but it sure helps. I NEVER bend my wrist inward. In fact, I gave up playing the guitar for that very reason. I even make sure I don't do this while sleeping at night. If I am doing a task that requires me bending my hand inward, I just keep trying to find a different position until I do.

I keep my arms, hands and shoulders flexed and stretched. If I have a difficult work session ahead I take a few minutes and stretch out my hands and arms.

I made sure my chores were not quite so hard. That meant selling the rare breed of sheep I had been raising for years and years, because of course the shearing is very hard on the hands and arms. I also sold my very old colt-breaking saddle because it weighed about 75 lbs and was hard to put on a horse. (That can still bring tears to my eyes... I loved that saddle.) I got a lighter, more modern saddle. I can't say I like it as much, but it sure is a lot easier.

I guess you can see I had to make some major changes. Now, I have friends who had surgery and they had excellent results, but I do think you have to be reasonable about the demands you make on your body. I do think every little bit helps, so even starting with small changes can probably make a big difference. At present I normally have *no* pain in the hands or arms and I am able to do most things. Now, right after we put in the hay for the winter (about 600 bales) yeah, I could hardly hold a coffee cup without pain. But already I feel much better, and I've been working like a fiend for all the Christmas orders.

[Billy P]

Hi everybody, some years ago I had surgery for carpel tunnel syn., then as it turned out I didn't have carpel tunnel, but Diabetic Neurothopy (sp). That means nerve damage caused by diabetes. My right hand sometimes hurts as bad as passing a kidney stone, and yep I did that once too, so I know them both. Until a couple of years ago I had not worked with leather for a while, no time, no place, too busy working 12/15 hr days. When I had to retire in 2002 I started going stir crazy so I bought a 8x16 building, put in elec. and off I go working at working with leather. It got to where after a couple of hours my shoulders and elbows hurt to I felt like crying. I'm right handed, but have always held the mallet/maul in my left hand and the tool in my right. Well it was the left side giving me the problems. It finally came out that I had torn rotator cuffs in both shoulders. Not bad enough for surgery, but hurt like hell. I had seen and read all the emails from the IILG and I finally ordered me a maul. I just got mine from Grizzly Tools because it was cheaper than Hidecrafters and ws the sme thing. I wanted to try one before I invested very much in one. Anyway to the point, It did'nt take long to realize that I really need a better maul made out of something harder, as mine is soft and I have to use my old Garland mallet for pear shading and some of the bigger stamps. The truth is you would have to really fight me to make me give up my maul now though. It has helped my shoulder and elbows a lot. I can tool for a long time now and it hardly bothers me at all. As soon as I can get some stuff straightened out and can afford it I intend to get me a decent maul about a lb or 20oz er. As long as it is made of the harder material I'll be fine. I said a lot to say that changing to a maul made a big difference in my tooling and how long I can tool at the sitting and how much trouble I was having with my shoulder and elbow. With Regards Billy P

[CitizenKate]

I really find my mauls much easier on my wrist and arm than the rawhide mallet I used before. I was starting to get a chronic "tennis elbo" type of problem in my striking arm, and when I got the mauls, the problem cleared up.

I think it also helps to use the right weight of striking tool for the job. One that is too light can make your arm (and wrist) work harder than it should have to in order to get a solid impression from the stamp. The rule of thumb I was taught was, if you have to force the striking tool down, it's too light. If you have to control the fall, it's too heavy.

Kate

[Hilly]

I got bad golfer's elbow on both sides. It became so bad that I could not touch anything without feeling like a white hot knife blade was slitting the insides of my elbows. I had surgery on both elbows 5 years ago, and the left one came out perfect, and the right came out kinda so/so, not great. I did lose a lot of strength in both hands to the point that I cannot open twist off caps. That's what husbands or friends are for!

The best advice I can give you is to make sure and stretch those tendons as often as you think about it, even if you have to do it at times that it looks really strange to others. Exercise and blood flow to the affected parts is extremely important, so make sure and have your doctor or phys therapist work out an exercise routine for the affected parts. Also, mildly arobic exercise helps with blood flow. Go for a brisk walk at least 20 minutes a day.Take extra vitamin E, as it helps in collagen production, and healing the micro tears in the tendons. I also use physical restraints to the affected muscles to anchor the muscle to the bone before the tendon has to stretch (elbow straps).

If you have surgery, keep in mind that if you start using the arm/hand in the same manner as what caused the injury in the first place, the injury is much more likely to recur. My tendon troubles are caused by my job (repetitive motion), and are beginning to return, as I haven't changed occupations. I have 8 years till I can retire, but I doubt I can tough it out that long and still be able to use my arms. It's a choice you need to make for yourself. Also, if you can learn to use your hands/arms in different positions, it will help, but can injure other parts. I'm now beginning to get bad tennis elbow because I use my arms differently than I used to, so different muscles are affected. Carving leather and using a rotary punch really give me grief. Tooling and stamping are fine. I'm trying to talk my husband into helping me with carving and punching holes. Okay, enough ranting from me for now. Thanks for reading.

[Opagon]

It has been a very fustrating thing for me to come to grips that I have the carpal tunnel. I am just getting started with my craft and dont want to have to stop. I am lucky to have a good friend who is a physical therapist, so I asked some advice on what to do. She told me to do what she calls "the hot cold soak" before and after braiding. I place my hands in hot water (as hot as I can handle) up to the middle of my forearms and wait for 3 to 4 minutes then switch to the ice cold for the same amount of time. I do this five times and find my kitchen sink to work the best. (Sometimes I actually wash the dishes too...) According to her it helps the blood flow and opens things up. She also sent me to this site for excersies - www.carpaltunnelexercises.net I also found this site to be helpful - www.will-harris.com/yoga/rsi.html

Heather

[gtwister09]

Johanna,

Sorry to hear about that. I spent many years as an Industrial Engineer and one of my functions was performing ergonomic evaluations, correcting designs and such. I was working in a large manufacturing shop that had lots of machining operations that included hand operations such as deburring. It also had many engineers who performed computer aided manufacuring and design. They generally spent more than 10 hours a day performing operations on the computer. These evaluations were done on people with CTS, RMI and other things like back problems and such. A major aspect of the evaluations also included finding out what things they did at home and hobby as well. This was to see what other things could have contributed to the ergonmic issue. Many of them would pick up grandkids, do crotchet work, gardening, woodworking, golf, tennis or any number of things after work.

Every thing we do to twist, pronate or anything else unnaturally to the wrist contributes to it. Any amount of weight any distance out from your torso will create a moment arm that essentially increases the weight as it goes out from the torso. With that said you should try to keep your wrist in as neutral as a position as possible and with as little weight as possible. Stretching is also good but don't overdo it. Likewise the best thing that I can say about ergonomics is that it is about reduction of these factors. RARELY can we elimiate all of them. This was the reason for gathering the additional information so that we could identify actions that we could eliminate or help them reduce these contributors.

Now to your maul versus mallet question. From an ergonomics standpoint the maul when properly used is better designed to reduce the forces and twisting associated with your wrist. The mallet will make you more tired over the same amount of time and it will start to create sore shoulders and elbows. Many state that mallets make them start to get tennis elbow.

I personally stopped using mallets and started using mauls when I started doing ergonomics over 16-17 years ago.

Regards,

Ben

[unicornwoman]

I've had a whiplash injury that produced many carpel tunnel like symptoms, pushed my bad jaw alignment into full-blow TMJ, left my right arm numb, and other pains.

For my issues, the best thing that every happened to me was Physical Therapy. I've been through two series: one for the numb arm; one for the TMJ. It hurts bad--there were days I literally sobbed in the parking lot before I could face the drive home--but it does wonders. The exercises keep the numbness in the arm gone. I do have to be FAITHFUL. Cheating on the at-home exercises usually produces very quick and unpleasant results.

With my TMJ, the doctors talked me into surgery finally. Now that I've done it, I wish I had tried 6-8 months of PT BEFORE surgery, instead of after. ANY surgery is an INJURY. You're being cut with a knife. It has risks. You have to heal again. Always. For me, yeah, okay, some of the neck problems are better, but I also now have a muscle problem in my face that, if ignored when flaring up, interferes with my vision. I'm not sure the trade off was worth it.

I have had to change the way I do things. Mousing with my right hand the way the ergonomic gurus say to HURTS. I can cross mouse with my right (i.e. mouse on the left, but using right hand with forearm resting on the desk) or I can mouse left handed. (I'm mainly right-handed with mild leanings to ambidextrousness that have been reinforced by PAIN.) Dual hand mousing means I have to purchase a flat mouse, not one of those tilted right or left handed things. (BTW, switching to an optic mouse, if you haven't already, really reduces the strain of mousing.)

As for mallets vs mauls: DEFINITELY the mauls for me. The mallets required me to lift my shoulder and put the swing in from the elbow down. That caused pain. The maul that I purchased is very nicely balanced for my hand and only has to be tapped with the wrist, allowing the shoulder not to be lifted.

[anne newkold]

I have carpal tunnel in both wrist. In order to avoid surgery I changed jobs (was working in a factory) and wear wrist braces on both arm at night to sleep in for the rest of my life. I have to wear them even for things such as driving for 30 minutes or more. Just typing on the keyboard for extended periods can cause pain. So I wear them then too when I have a lot to type.

A maul or mallet? all depends on what position "you" are putting your arm in. I am still trying to get use to wearing my braces when I am tooling. Works for that so far but not while using the swivel knife.

One thing most people do not know or think about when you do have the surgery is the "% of loss of use." To me that was not worth the surgery yet. So I wear my braces and do the stretching exercises every day just like the said to do in therapy.

[Jordan]

Well, I don't feel so all alone, two dead nerves in the neck and shoulder, damaged nerves in the elbow and wrist, they diagnosed it as repetative nerve damage, carpal tunnel and drivers elbow. I think they missed it though, due to sudden onset 3 years ago, I think it is diabetic neuropathy and the steroid treatment brought out type 2 and now it's type 1. And the battle for disability rages on and on and on. It seems true that all the bumps and lumps when your 10 feet tall and bullet proof comes back to bite you after 50 LOL. I know that in woodworking mauls have been a tool of choice for a long time, ergonomics probably play a big part, so pounding leather is probably not that different. I will be giving one a try one of these days. Jordan

[Ed Miller]

Hi all long time no post

I too have had CTS surgery and after the final eval by the employers doctor was reported at 16% permanent disability in the right hand and 14% in the left. Which is way better than before the surgery. I had to stop playing guitar entirely, could not hold a pencil or a pen for more than 10 seconds before my hand was completely numb. Was bascially unable to do anything with out intense pain and numbness. In addition to the CTS in the wrist I have compression of the ulnar nerve in both elbows. I am however able to play guitar and carve leather. I just have to watch how long I do it. I have to stop and do my stretching exercises many time during the day. After your surgery do everything the physical therapist asks. Religiously, it will help I did switch from a hammer to a maul but that was really only because a tool maker offered to custom make me one at a really good price So I gave it a try and decided I liked it.

I wouldn't give up all hope of your leatherworking until after the surgery and some progression on the therapy.

[Michael Sheldon]

I do a lot of things that should give me RSI trouble. I'm a software engineer, so I spend a lot of time at the keyboard, and I do leatherwork and occasional woodwork, which requires precise movements in awkward positions, and puts pressure on vulnerable joints.

However, only one thing has ever caused me trouble, the computer mouse (not keyboard). My right wrist was always killing me until I figured it out. I then switched to an ergonomic trackball (Logitech Trackman Marble FX) and I haven't had a single problem since. Plus I really like it.

The only issue is that it hasn't been made in years. I see them on Ebay now and again, usually selling for as much or more than they did when new.

I'm thinking of trying out Logitech's latest mouse though, it's got a very similar shape to my trackball. (Hint, let your hand hang loosely at your side, it should end up with wrist straight, and your fingers curled almost as if around a baseball. This is the "position of function", and is the absolute least stressful position. The closer your hand is to this shape when you are working, the less chance of injury.)

I'm not sure I buy that there's any significant difference between mallet or maul, the hand position is pretty much the same. However, a tapered head might help. In my case, my maul actually may be easier on my wrist. I use a 32-ounce maul, which means the weight of the maul is doing most of the work, which in turn means I use arm motion more than wrist. After hours with my maul, it's not my wrist that's sore, it's my arm. With the lighter mallet, it takes wrist movement to get the velocity needed to impart the force. I don't use it for long repetitive sessions though, so I can't say how much difference it makes.

[Johanna]

I went for the last surgical consultation today, and there isn't going to be any surgery. My choice. The surgery wouldn't restore the range of motion, anyway, and that is one of my top complaints. I have an "ulnar abutment" which means two bones are rubbing on each other, and the area is swollen and irritated. They could shave the lunate bone in my wrist, but the surgeon warned that it would ache for a long time, maybe forever. It does that now, so I don't want it to be worse! There is nerve damage affecting three fingers that cannot be repaired surgically, either. Neither can the "vascular osteo-necrosis", which spells eventual doom for that little lunate bone. The consensus was that I should accept the limitations and learn to manage the disability, except for the bone surgeon who wants to fix that lunate bone. He put up a great defense for his surgery, but it isn't expected to fix enough of the problems to be worth it.

They did agree that I need to baby this wrist. No one ever suggested that ever during any of the first year's physical therapy. None of the professionals in the PT office ever cut me any slack or showed any mercy, and four years later I learn that I probably made things worse every time I forced myself to stir cookie dough, start the lawnmower, sweep the walks, whatever with my right hand, trying to toughen it up and work it out. Ugh. Now I'm in the management phase of the injury, which means making a conscious effort to be left handed, and ease up on burden on this hand. I really miss playing guitar, swimming and writing with a pen, but I guess I need to be thankful of all the things I can still do, like bore my friends to tears feeling sorry for myself on my ergonomic split keyboard. I'm just disappointed that there isn't some kind of magical solution, and to "try wearing a splint on bad days" was the extent of useful advice I got for the money.

Johanna

[Bearns]

Hi, I found this thread searching the board for the word "ergonomic" hoping to find perhaps a source for ergo leather tools OR some sort of tool holder for standard 1/4 inch diameter stamps. I've been doing a lot of leatherwork (orders and gifts) this month and now my hand aches and the fingers go numb when I grip the stamp tools with my left hand. I'm using a pair of lock-jaw pliers to grip the tool tonight, which gives me control of placement without twisting or bending the wrist, but I am curious as to how other people deal with this problem... or if there are special tools available anywhere, please share where! Thanks, Nancy

[bkingery]

Hi, I found this thread searching the board for the word "ergonomic" hoping to find perhaps a source for ergo leather tools OR some sort of tool holder for standard 1/4 inch diameter stamps. I've been doing a lot of leatherwork (orders and gifts) this month and now my hand aches and the fingers go numb when I grip the stamp tools with my left hand. I'm using a pair of lock-jaw pliers to grip the tool tonight, which gives me control of placement without twisting or bending the wrist, but I am curious as to how other people deal with this problem... or if there are special tools available anywhere, please share where! Thanks, Nancy

Hey there, I like you am having a very hard time trying to find ergo stamping tools, NOBODY has them, all I have seen is the new ergo swivel knife and modeling tools from Tandy but as far as the stamping tools there is NOT ONE, so i bought some rubber hose from the parts store and am trying to figure out a way to fit it so i can make all my tools about 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch which so far seems to be the optimal size for me to stop all the nerves in my hnds from going numb, still have to work on the bad shoulders and elbows but i'm trying to figure it out.

B

Edited December 20, 2010 by bkingery

[gtwister09]

Nancy,

Some of the things that you might try are surgical tubing (most prefer that over the automotive rubber tubing - for a more tactile feel). Another thing to look at is the pen sleeves. These come in many sizes and shapes (round, square, triangular and octagon). They should fit the majority of your tools. I have used them and the surgical tbing with quite a bit of success with helping others with this problem. Tape is another low cost alternative that some use. Some even use thin leather rolled up to increase the diameter. Good luck.

Regards,

Ben

[bkingery]

Nancy,

Some of the things that you might try are surgical tubing (most prefer that over the automotive rubber tubing - for a more tactile feel). Another thing to look at is the pen sleeves. These come in many sizes and shapes (round, square, triangular and octagon). They should fit the majority of your tools. I have used them and the surgical tbing with quite a bit of success with helping others with this problem. Tape is another low cost alternative that some use. Some even use thin leather rolled up to increase the diameter. Good luck.

Regards,

Ben

Funny you should mention the surgical hose because I was talking to my physical therapist brother after i put that post up last night and he mentioned wrapping surg. tube on the tools or using a liquid latex and doing a buildup to the thickness that we need and make them fit our hands and oh yeah he did say " I've showed you the exercises before why aren't you doing them MORON", unquote.

[gtwister09]

Nancy,

I had to laugh a little.... Not at your predicament but the exercise comment from the therapist. When I was heavily involved in ergonomics the exercises were ALWAYS the least followed item especially for the hands whether it was for computer operators, engineers, deburr people, symbolization people or any other occupation that required some degree of manual dexterity.

FYI. I would not waste my time trying to "build up" a tool with the liquid latex. Anything past a layer starts to get problematic. I would start with tape to see how much buildup is comfortable for you. Test several thicknesses to see which feels the best.

You might also try relaxing your grip on the tools as well. And yes....exercise those hands.

Regards,

Ben