Members garethkerlin Posted January 6 Author Members Report Posted January 6 On 1/2/2025 at 8:25 PM, 1hp said: this craft, 2 machine minimum. At this point I'm a two hand minimum haha. Hand sewing has been really rewarding and to be honest I prefer the look and construction of a saddle stitch but I just want to produce more. Just can't shell out 7 grand at the start.lol. Quote
Members garethkerlin Posted January 6 Author Members Report Posted January 6 On 1/2/2025 at 7:12 PM, Cumberland Highpower said: (That's part of why I like the old Randall Stitchers and still keep them, I can sit, do some quality work on small goods and keep my arms and elbows at the same level at a comfortable spacing). I have an opportunity to buy one of those for a good deal. I love the stitch that they make (and it's a dream of mine to own one) though I believe they are probably even more limited than a 441 clone haha. I can't imagine a flatbed attachment for one haha. Quote
Members garethkerlin Posted January 6 Author Members Report Posted January 6 On 1/2/2025 at 5:07 PM, dikman said: If, as others have said, it's a 441 clone (and in the brochure it certainly looks like one) then you will NOT be sewing 2-3 pieces of paper - unless it's bloody thick paper!! When I see something like that on a brochure I really have to question the reality of it. Is it just a sales pitch to sell machines even though it will be a huge pain in the butt... Haha Quote
Members garethkerlin Posted January 6 Author Members Report Posted January 6 On 1/2/2025 at 3:40 PM, nylonRigging said: it sewing..." light work "2-3 pieces of paper". I seriously doubt that. you can try ?, but I don't think the machine would do that thin unless you really changed out a plethora of things, Dog, small hole Needle plate, Feet, choices of 794 needle size, and really work playing with tensions ..etc. .. ( imho ) you don't buy that machine to sew thinnest of material. That's not what the machine was design to do. there so many other lighter and cheaper-$ machines already do that job well . . I know I could replace the parts etc but I don't have a lot of experience with tensions. Definitely don't wanna throw myself in the deep in and get super frustrated. The "2-3 pieces of paper" on the brochure sounds a like a sales pitch to me haha Quote
Members garethkerlin Posted January 6 Author Members Report Posted January 6 On 1/2/2025 at 6:16 AM, Patrick1 said: http://www.artisansew.com/pdf/specs/TORO_3200.pdf If this is the machine your looking at, it's a 441 clone with a 7/8 thickness capacity. It's same as the Cobra class 3, or the Cowboy CB 3500, not the Cowboy 3200 which is not a 441 clone because the all the parts are not compatible. You're better off with the Toro 3200 because you can upgrade the machine with the narrow feed dogs and plates to sew thinner material. Just the best versatile machine out there in my opinion. If the Artisan Toro 3200 is a 441 clone, does it have the same capacity as the class 4, 4500 etc? The only difference being the shorter cylinder arm? The class 3 has a 9" and the class 4 is 16" and this one is 12". If so, that's a nice middle of the road! Quote
Members garethkerlin Posted January 6 Author Members Report Posted January 6 On 1/2/2025 at 12:03 AM, kgg said: I finally just went with a standard Juki 16" clone using standard readily available parts that can be had from a lot of suppliers and figured it would be a lot easier to sell down the road. That said if the price was right and it was in great shape it maybe worth a consideration. What are they asking for the machine???? Which brand did you end up going with? I'm stuck in the same research loop trying to make the best choice. I know some of the less reputable clones are really good for a fraction of the price but is hard to know which ones you can trust... Artisan is selling the base model toro3200 with the u table without shipping for $2,600. Sounds like a pretty good deal though freight might be crazy. Can't find many good used machines local to me in VA.... Quote
kgg Posted January 6 Report Posted January 6 1 hour ago, garethkerlin said: Which brand did you end up going with? I'm stuck in the same research loop trying to make the best choice. I know some of the less reputable clones are really good for a fraction of the price but is hard to know which ones you can trust... Since I'm in Ontario, Canada I went with KOBE which was considerably cheaper then what a Cobra, Cowboy or even a Techsew would have cost. Quote Juki DNU - 1541S, Juki DU - 1181N, Singer 29K - 71(1949), Chinese Patcher (Tinkers Delight), Warlock TSC-441, Techsew 2750 Pro, Consew DCS-S4 Skiver
Members Cumberland Highpower Posted January 6 Members Report Posted January 6 (edited) 7 hours ago, garethkerlin said: I have an opportunity to buy one of those for a good deal. I love the stitch that they make (and it's a dream of mine to own one) though I believe they are probably even more limited than a 441 clone haha. I can't imagine a flatbed attachment for one haha. You could make one for it (I think Randall-Campbell has one). It's all on one side of the machine. More "limited" than a 441? In general yes. They're primarily for Leather. I've sewn everything from real heavy skirting down to 2/3oz leather in wallets, PVC, Closed cell foam, rubber and even plastic. Randalls wont handle woven materials, the hook/needle will snag and either tear the fabric or break. I have sewn beta biothane on them, but had to modify things a little. They do make a beautiful stitch and are easy to use. But, if you want to do any nylon work or binding, they're entirely unsuitable. In leather they're a more capable machine than a 441 clone. You can do much finer work, much closer to edges, right up against molded work, and with larger thread than usual with better results. I once made a batch of mens wallets comprised of 2/3 and 3/4oz leather and stitched them entirely with 277 nylon. They came out looking fantastic. Try that on a 441! LOL. Hook and awl harness machines are really dinosaurs, but I like them. Nobody in the US has made a new one since before WW2 and they just keep rebuilding old ones over and over. Things have changed allot in industry over the past 70 years and I think the limited demand for these machines will fade away sooner than you think. Modern stitchers like the 441 are easier to train operators on, cheaper to buy, easier to maintain and more versatile. Stitch quality is inferior on leather, but it's close enough. In this gilded age of "Made in China" nobody remembers high quality work (or cares) and good enough is literally good enough! My point here (I rambled a bit) is if you want a Randall better get it now while parts/hooks/awls are available. The Randalls were all made over a century ago and I don't think they made that many in total. Not all survive today. 4 are sitting in my shop! lol. I doubt Randall-Campbell will make parts and service these machines 10-20 years from now even if they tell you today they will. Edited January 6 by Cumberland Highpower Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.