lubricant box

[esantoro]

I stitch mainly with white and black bonded poly, 138 to 277. I'd like to get some deer/beige/tan poly in 138, 207, 277. Is the best price I'm going to find the $20 per 16 oz spool ant Campbell's.

Also, since I don't go through all this thread that quickly, I think I'm going to start using thread lubricant in the lubricant box atop my super bull. What's the best lubricant to use? Campbell Bosworth's got some stuf for $20 a gallon.

My baby bull didn't come with a lubricant box. Any suggestions for a magnetic one?

Thanks,

ed

[bruce johnson]

Ed,

I would avoid the magnetic base lube pots. They don't stay in place, tip over, and are a pain. I think Art said on another list that he has the same experience.

I get a color called "peasant" from Ferdco that sure could pass for deer/tan/waxed linen color. I can usually get 1-2 day shipping from them to me. Your price is typical I think.

Thread lube is all over the scale. Ferdco told me that any good leather conditioner like Lexol will work. That's what I have used for a few years with no problems, and if I run low - the feed store has it! Weavers have a couple brands I think, Campbells have theirs too.

Bruce Johnson

[esantoro]

Ed,

I would avoid the magnetic base lube pots. They don't stay in place, tip over, and are a pain. I think Art said on another list that he has the same experience.

I get a color called "peasant" from Ferdco that sure could pass for deer/tan/waxed linen color. I can usually get 1-2 day shipping from them to me. Your price is typical I think.

Thread lube is all over the scale. Ferdco told me that any good leather conditioner like Lexol will work. That's what I have used for a few years with no problems, and if I run low - the feed store has it! Weavers have a couple brands I think, Campbells have theirs too.

Bruce Johnson

I'm bidding on a plastic magnetic lube pot that also clamps to the metal pin on the baby bull. I've taken Ferdco's advice to spray my spools of thread once a month with liquid glycerine saddle soap to keep them from drying out, but someone told me I should get a silicone based thread lubricant forthe pot. I've got loads of neatsfoot oil around, synthetic blend and pure.

ed

[esantoro]

Ed,

I would avoid the magnetic base lube pots. They don't stay in place, tip over, and are a pain. I think Art said on another list that he has the same experience.

I get a color called "peasant" from Ferdco that sure could pass for deer/tan/waxed linen color. I can usually get 1-2 day shipping from them to me. Your price is typical I think.

Thread lube is all over the scale. Ferdco told me that any good leather conditioner like Lexol will work. That's what I have used for a few years with no problems, and if I run low - the feed store has it! Weavers have a couple brands I think, Campbells have theirs too.

Bruce Johnson

Hi Bruce,

I think i want to take your recommendation and get the Coats Peasant from Ferdco. From Ferdco's picture the peasant looks too yello. Not true?

Campbell Bosworth sent me samples of their Eddington deer, which seems to unravel a bit.

What price does Ferdco ask for their thread? Shipping?

Thanks,

Ed

[bruce johnson]

Ed,

The peasant color runs me about $1.40 per ounce for #346 It is a pretty golden color, and looks lighter once sewn. I like it initially, and it makes a good match on repairs that may have been originally sewn with white, but have aged. Shipping is pretty average with all my other suppliers except for Siegels. I am usually ordering needles and thread, so try to get a decent enough sized order to make the shipping work. They don't have a minimum order or low order surcharge.

Bruce Johnson

[esantoro]

Ed,

The peasant color runs me about $1.40 per ounce for #346 It is a pretty golden color, and looks lighter once sewn. I like it initially, and it makes a good match on repairs that may have been originally sewn with white, but have aged. Shipping is pretty average with all my other suppliers except for Siegels. I am usually ordering needles and thread, so try to get a decent enough sized order to make the shipping work. They don't have a minimum order or low order surcharge.

Bruce Johnson

Bruce,

I like the color of the Eddington deer, not too golden. Campbell Bosworth has 16 ounces for $19.40. Buying by the once would be better for me, as it would take a long time for me to go through a whole pound of thread.

From what you say about the peasant, an aged off-white look, I think it may be exactly what I need.

By the way, Bruce, how often do you oil behind the face place of your Super Bull 2000? Are there any particular places you oil othe than those that have been marked for oiling or are behind the swing doors?

Thanks,

Ed

[bruce johnson]

Ed,

They price it by the ounce, but sell by full spools. There is a link or phone number on Ferdco's site (www.ferdco.com) that leads to a seller who sells smaller size spools and different colors. AS far as oiling behind the plates - every time I oil the machine. I touch anything that looks like it moves. I use thin plastic tubes (actually urinary catheters) on the end of my oil squeeze bottle to reach them. I also clean my machine religiously. I know of a guy (different company's similar machine) who found three broken needle tips in his race, along with some nasty grooves and a birdsnest worth of thread dust and remnants when it finally seized. I try to learn from guys like him. He doesn't like his machine now. Small wonder.

Send me a private email with an address, and I can send you a sample of the thread for color and and a sewn piece.

Bruce Johnson

[esantoro]

Ed,

They price it by the ounce, but sell by full spools. There is a link or phone number on Ferdco's site (www.ferdco.com) that leads to a seller who sells smaller size spools and different colors. AS far as oiling behind the plates - every time I oil the machine. I touch anything that looks like it moves. I use thin plastic tubes (actually urinary catheters) on the end of my oil squeeze bottle to reach them. I also clean my machine religiously. I know of a guy (different company's similar machine) who found three broken needle tips in his race, along with some nasty grooves and a birdsnest worth of thread dust and remnants when it finally seized. I try to learn from guys like him. He doesn't like his machine now. Small wonder.

Send me a private email with an address, and I can send you a sample of the thread for color and and a sewn piece.

Bruce Johnson

Thanks, Bruce, for offering to send me samples. I've taken your and Art's recommendation and have ordered spools of the the peasant from Ferdco. I also ordered a quart of the Ferdco 4-way conditioner to use in the lube pot (and have ordered a couple of quarts of Feibings 4-way from Siegels with my latest order -- always want to make sure you hit the $75 free shipping mark with them). Do you thnk most any leather conditioner would work? Pure Neatsfoot oil? Compound Neatsfoot oil? I would think that these might leave marks on the leather.

I'm also going out tomorrow to look for 10 weight hydraulic oil for my machine.

Ed

P.S. Bruce, I'd love to see what the 346 peasant looks like stitched. What do you use it for? I like the thick stitch look but so far haven't used above 277.

[esantoro]

Ed,

I would avoid the magnetic base lube pots. They don't stay in place, tip over, and are a pain. I think Art said on another list that he has the same experience.

I get a color called "peasant" from Ferdco that sure could pass for deer/tan/waxed linen color. I can usually get 1-2 day shipping from them to me. Your price is typical I think.

Thread lube is all over the scale. Ferdco told me that any good leather conditioner like Lexol will work. That's what I have used for a few years with no problems, and if I run low - the feed store has it! Weavers have a couple brands I think, Campbells have theirs too.

Bruce Johnson

I just got my order from Ferdco. However, I ordered the Lexol 4Way from them and they sent me Fiebings. I'm a little upset because I had already ordered the Fiebings from Siegels, who even though they have great prices on some things ($10 and change for the Fiebings 4way, 32 oz), routinely messes up my orders. It's a part-time job just to double check their accounting and shipping.

Is their a difference between the Lexol 4Way and the Fiebings 4 Way, or are they the same just under different packaging. The Fiebings 4 Way I purchased from Siegels is a milky white substance. I had wanted to compare it to Lexol but that's not what Ferdco shipped.

Ferdco invoiced me about 18 oz for each spool of thread, but the spools are labeled as 16 oz each. Does Ferdco simply weigh the whole spool, plastic spindle included? We're talking about a $7 difference here. It upsets me when an invoice states one thing and the product another.

On a more positive note, I thnk I will be happy with the Coats peasant. Thanks, Bruce, for the recommendation.

Ed

Ed

[bruce johnson]

Ed,

I am not a 4 Way user, but have heard the 4Way's are the same. I use just regular Lexol leather conditioner for my thread lube. It is a milky liquid, consistancy of whole milk.

As far as thread weights, I think they weigh and charge based on that. I have had spools of varying wieghts (15 to 19 oz) from both Ferdco and Weaver. Weaver sent me one once that was so overfilled that the thread would fall off the spool and tangle under the thread stand. I don't know if anyone figures the tare of the spool or not.

Bruce Johnson

[Art]

Hi Ed,

Thread is put-up in spools. They have 4oz, 8oz, 16oz, and 32oz spools or KS "King Spools", all are trade names for the plastic spool the thread is wound on. Spool weights are seldom as marked and the weight is usually over what is marked. I have received spools with 13oz on a 16oz spool and that was probably where the thread either broke or was at the end of a big roll the manufacturers use. It is like a box of chocolates......, and don't be suprised if the thread weight on the label does not seem to be correct. I've had Eddington 207 that was bigger than Eddington 346 in the same color, people just make mistakes in the put-up room. I like Coats for everything except period or reproduction work, and for that I use Eddington. The Eddington is not twisted at tightly as Coats and looks more "period". I use Coats Barbour Linen on the Campbell which is setup for 4 cord and I leave it set for that. The eye-needle stitchers do as good a job with poly as the Campbell and are less of a headache, if I could only have one machine it would be a big Artisan or Ferdco and I would do the linen by hand.

The Lexol I use is conditioner and has a yellowish milky appearance. Never tried 4-Way. Their cleaner works pretty well too, but I use Leather Amore from Bee Natural the most for cleaning.

Everyone messes-up orders. The folks picking that stuff often don't use it and don't have a clue what it is. If you have a problem with orders at Siegel, email Steve at ceo@Siegelofca.com and tell him your problems. Sometimes they get folks who just don't care, but if he doesn't hear about it he can't fix it...and he will fix it to your satisfaction (from personal experiance).

I am suprised that FERDCO didn't mention that they weigh the thead, they tell me every time I order. Thread costs what it costs and I don't chase the price, I just look for a reliable source.

Eddington -- Campbell Bosworth

Coats Poly -- FERDCO

Coats Poly small sizes and variety of colors -- SFS (a shoe supplier), Dan Bussey -- 1-800-256-3892

Rice Nylon -- A.H. Rice Company(I can go on and on about how good this stuff is but they don't produce much of it anymore) --

Lynhanl Nylon -- Artisan Sewing Supplies (South American Manufacture of good thread but it ain't A.H.Rice)

Coats Barbour Linen -- Campbell Bosworth (prepare to fork over arm and leg, they wouldn't take the kids)

On the Straw or Phesant color thread, you will receive it and immediately say what have I done, this is going back. On the spool it looks yellow, however when sewn it has a very natural looking color, much better than any white (except maybe A.H.Rice natural).

Art

I just got my order from Ferdco. However, I ordered the Lexol 4Way from them and they sent me Fiebings. I'm a little upset because I had already ordered the Fiebings from Siegels, who even though they have great prices on some things ($10 and change for the Fiebings 4way, 32 oz), routinely messes up my orders. It's a part-time job just to double check their accounting and shipping.

Is their a difference between the Lexol 4Way and the Fiebings 4 Way, or are they the same just under different packaging. The Fiebings 4 Way I purchased from Siegels is a milky white substance. I had wanted to compare it to Lexol but that's not what Ferdco shipped.

Ferdco invoiced me about 18 oz for each spool of thread, but the spools are labeled as 16 oz each. Does Ferdco simply weigh the whole spool, plastic spindle included? We're talking about a $7 difference here. It upsets me when an invoice states one thing and the product another.

On a more positive note, I thnk I will be happy with the Coats peasant. Thanks, Bruce, for the recommendation.

Ed

Ed

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

Thread is put-up in spools. They have 4oz, 8oz, 16oz, and 32oz spools or KS "King Spools", all are trade names for the plastic spool the thread is wound on. Spool weights are seldom as marked and the weight is usually over what is marked. I have received spools with 13oz on a 16oz spool and that was probably where the thread either broke or was at the end of a big roll the manufacturers use. It is like a box of chocolates......, and don't be suprised if the thread weight on the label does not seem to be correct. I've had Eddington 207 that was bigger than Eddington 346 in the same color, people just make mistakes in the put-up room. I like Coats for everything except period or reproduction work, and for that I use Eddington. The Eddington is not twisted at tightly as Coats and looks more "period". I use Coats Barbour Linen on the Campbell which is setup for 4 cord and I leave it set for that. The eye-needle stitchers do as good a job with poly as the Campbell and are less of a headache, if I could only have one machine it would be a big Artisan or Ferdco and I would do the linen by hand.

The Lexol I use is conditioner and has a yellowish milky appearance. Never tried 4-Way. Their cleaner works pretty well too, but I use Leather Amore from Bee Natural the most for cleaning.

Everyone messes-up orders. The folks picking that stuff often don't use it and don't have a clue what it is. If you have a problem with orders at Siegel, email Steve at ceo@Siegelofca.com and tell him your problems. Sometimes they get folks who just don't care, but if he doesn't hear about it he can't fix it...and he will fix it to your satisfaction (from personal experiance).

I am suprised that FERDCO didn't mention that they weigh the thead, they tell me every time I order. Thread costs what it costs and I don't chase the price, I just look for a reliable source.

Eddington -- Campbell Bosworth

Coats Poly -- FERDCO

Coats Poly small sizes and variety of colors -- SFS (a shoe supplier), Dan Bussey -- 1-800-256-3892

Rice Nylon -- A.H. Rice Company(I can go on and on about how good this stuff is but they don't produce much of it anymore) --

Lynhanl Nylon -- Artisan Sewing Supplies (South American Manufacture of good thread but it ain't A.H.Rice)

Coats Barbour Linen -- Campbell Bosworth (prepare to fork over arm and leg, they wouldn't take the kids)

On the Straw or Phesant color thread, you will receive it and immediately say what have I done, this is going back. On the spool it looks yellow, however when sewn it has a very natural looking color, much better than any white (except maybe A.H.Rice natural).

Art

Ferdco returned my call this morning and told me that they stock only the Fiebings conditioner and not the Lexol, which I thought I was ordering.

I do like the color of the Eddington Deer, as it looks more natural, but the longer I compared it with the Coats the less of a difference I sensed, especially stitched. With a bit of wear, I can imagine the Coats will look even more natural. I did end up going with the Coats becasue of the tighter twist and the apparently better bond, as I don't go through thread that quickly.

Is their a big difference between the Coats Ultra-Dee and the Daband, which Ferdco sent me? I sense that the ultra dee is better suited for marine applications and patio furniture, whereas the Dabond has a less synthetic appeal.

Ed

[Art]

Hi Ed,

Coats Star Ultra Dee is for balls-to-the-wall sewing, it is a filiment polyester that is heavily lubricated, it comes in a lot of colors too and is usually put-up in 4oz spools. I have only seen size 92 but i am sure there are smaller sizes and maybe larger, I think this kind of the general purpose standard of the garment industry where they don't use Astra (spun poly). There is a kind of equivalent for the outdoor industry named Coats Gral which is also a heavily lubricated poly but comes in bigger sizes. Coats Nylbond and Dabond are the two kings of the outdoor industry and in the automotive industry they use neophil which comes in nylon, poly, and aramid. Coats is doing marketing by brand name to different segments of their user base with very similar products just as other manufacturers do to present and sell their product to a larger base. Sometimes you see names on Coats spools for which you can't find any information, maybe they are test marketing. I find it is just easier to buy new thread when you need it, and stick to a couple of brands, they all stitch differently and it can be confusing to have six or more brands of thread lying around.

Art

Ferdco returned my call this morning and told me that they stock only the Fiebings conditioner and not the Lexol, which I thought I was ordering.

I do like the color of the Eddington Deer, as it looks more natural, but the longer I compared it with the Coats the less of a difference I sensed, especially stitched. With a bit of wear, I can imagine the Coats will look even more natural. I did end up going with the Coats becasue of the tighter twist and the apparently better bond, as I don't go through thread that quickly.

Is their a big difference between the Coats Ultra-Dee and the Daband, which Ferdco sent me? I sense that the ultra dee is better suited for marine applications and patio furniture, whereas the Dabond has a less synthetic appeal.

Ed

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

Coats Star Ultra Dee is for balls-to-the-wall sewing, it is a filiment polyester that is heavily lubricated, it comes in a lot of colors too and is usually put-up in 4oz spools. I have only seen size 92 but i am sure there are smaller sizes and maybe larger, I think this kind of the general purpose standard of the garment industry where they don't use Astra (spun poly). There is a kind of equivalent for the outdoor industry named Coats Gral which is also a heavily lubricated poly but comes in bigger sizes. Coats Nylbond and Dabond are the two kings of the outdoor industry and in the automotive industry they use neophil which comes in nylon, poly, and aramid. Coats is doing marketing by brand name to different segments of their user base with very similar products just as other manufacturers do to present and sell their product to a larger base. Sometimes you see names on Coats spools for which you can't find any information, maybe they are test marketing. I find it is just easier to buy new thread when you need it, and stick to a couple of brands, they all stitch differently and it can be confusing to have six or more brands of thread lying around.

Art

Thanks for this great run down of Coats' thread line.

Quite frequently on Ebay there is a seller selling ultra dee in 138 black ($12 plus shipping) and other colors in smaller sizes.

Now I know to stick with Dabond.

Ed