First Saddle Build

[mbnaegle]

I hope this is the right subforum.

I grew up in our families leather machinery company, but want to learn more about saddlemaking and keep my Dad's old leather tools in use (he was a Saddle and Harness maker before getting into the equipment side of things). In particular, I'm interested in classic pre-1960's methods and construction, and eventually want to restore some family saddles.

Before I jump into those projects, I'm going to try my hand at this one. This started as an 80% finished Saddle that was thrown in with some used equipment we bought. The leather wasn't cut very symmetrical and the stitching is all over the place (I'm guessing it was all hand sewn, or something was up with their machine). The seat wasn't shaped to well, and they used foam to smooth it out. I get the impression that it was someone else's first Saddle build as well, but was never finished. It's quite small so I think was either intended for a small pony, or as a display piece. I don't have a horse to put it on, but would prefer to build it as a usable saddle.

I've started pulling it apart, and it hasn't gotten any better, but the tree seems fairly solid. The tree seems much older than the rest of it and seems to have more tack holes than I'd expect, so It might have been a rebuild. The woven covering is a bit loose, so once it's stripped down I want to start by refinishing the tree.

I know lots of modern trees are finished in fiberglass and resin. How far back was that process used? Is there a more traditional method of finishing a tree?

I'd appreciate any pointers and advise in this process.

[mbnaegle]

Reading up on saddle tree construction, I think this one was made with cheese cloth and varnish (apparently done on cheaper saddles back in the day, instead of the better rawhide coverings). I'm thinking I'll stick with what it had and give it several coats of varnish. 

[Mulesaw]

@mbnaegle I can easily understand the lure of doing a project like this, but given that western saddles require a lot of leather and a lot of work, it might be better to purchase a worn saddle or a new tree that will actually fit a horse that either you have or someone else does. 

Making a "learning saddle" is a great idea, but making learning saddle that will be used is even better. If the purpose is to give you some experience to work on those heirloom saddles, then it would be great to know that the solutions you want to use actually work. And you can't really tell that if the saddle you are training on is just "going to look pretty"

The price of the leather is going to be the same more or less, and also the work involved. But once the saddle is completed, it should fit a horse or a pony. It is quite possible that your small saddle will, but I would check with some local horse owners (if you don't have horses yourself), that the tree fits a horse that is regularly ridden. If it doesn't fit anything - then I would probably try to get a hold of another tree. 

I am not trying to discourage you in any way, (I have the same plan with some old English pony jumping saddles), but spending a lot of time and never being able to see the saddle being used would just be devastating in my opinion.

Brgds Jonas

[mbnaegle]

58 minutes ago, Mulesaw said:

@mbnaegle I can easily understand the lure of doing a project like this, but given that western saddles require a lot of leather and a lot of work, it might be better to purchase a worn saddle or a new tree that will actually fit a horse that either you have or someone else does. 

Making a "learning saddle" is a great idea, but making learning saddle that will be used is even better. If the purpose is to give you some experience to work on those heirloom saddles, then it would be great to know that the solutions you want to use actually work. And you can't really tell that if the saddle you are training on is just "going to look pretty"

The price of the leather is going to be the same more or less, and also the work involved. But once the saddle is completed, it should fit a horse or a pony. It is quite possible that your small saddle will, but I would check with some local horse owners (if you don't have horses yourself), that the tree fits a horse that is regularly ridden. If it doesn't fit anything - then I would probably try to get a hold of another tree. 

I am not trying to discourage you in any way, (I have the same plan with some old English pony jumping saddles), but spending a lot of time and never being able to see the saddle being used would just be devastating in my opinion.

Brgds Jonas

Thanks! That makes sense. I'll see if I can find someone with a pony to see how this tree fits.

[rktaylor]

While I believe you will learn by working on that saddle, a lot of what you do won't transfer to full size saddles. For example the riggings and stirrup leathers aren't going to scale up readily. If you don't have a use for it, I wouldn't invest a lot of time or money. I undertook a similar rebuild quite a few years ago, but a friend wanted it for his grandkids. Good luck on the journey. It will be rewarding. 

Randy

[mbnaegle]

I did a little more deconstruction on this saddle tonight. Even though the tree feels solid overall, the tacks holding the leather onto it have corroded and rusted into the leather, and many of them are pulling out by hand. The saddle horn had some kind of wood putty or plaster to fair it out under the cheese cloth, but it's crumbling away and will need to be re-puttied. Before I re-varnish the cheese-cloth, I'm going to putty up all the holes and start fresh. The tree itself seems to have had a fair amount of use, and I'm saving the pieces coming off of it, but don't want to assume any of the leather was cut or mounted correctly.

In addition to studying other saddles, do you guys have any recommendations for books on saddle design and construction? I've got the general jist of it (stirrup leathers, skirting, swells, etc.) but would like to better understand why some designs are used over others, what they're called etc. I realize this is a broad topic that takes decades of experience to understand, but I'd be glad of any starting points I can get (and like reading old technical literature!).

I also found another tree similarly sized to this one. Same cheese cloth wrap, but unused.

And on the topic of unused trees, I've got one more in the collection, but it's going to stay a wall hanger. I remember my Dad said it was a Percheron draft horse saddle made for the LA Mounted Police, but it didn't fit right. We've got a picture on the wall of him on a draft horse saddle that he made, but I'm not sure if it was the same job.

Edited yesterday at 04:39 AM by mbnaegle

[Mulesaw]

@mbnaegle the Stohlman encyclopedia of saddle making is a book that covers all. I have it and it is a great book for inspiration and reading etc. I haven't used it to build a saddle with yet since there are mostly European saddles in my area.

I also like an old German book, but it is hard to read unless you are used to German and Gothic letters. (It is a reprint from around 1900). (Das Sattler, Riemer und täschnerhandwerk"

There are other books that are advocated as good as well. If you search on this forum for books on saddle making, something will turn up.

The Stohlman book will get you through the process every step of the way. Some of his methods have been mentioned in here to be different from what some use today, but I guess it is only natural that a craft like saddle making slowly evolves too. 

On another note: The tree for the Percheron looks amazing, I would hang that on the wall as well if itr was me 🙂 

Brgds Jonas

[mbnaegle]

7 hours ago, Mulesaw said:

@mbnaegle the Stohlman encyclopedia of saddle making is a book that covers all. I have it and it is a great book for inspiration and reading etc. I haven't used it to build a saddle with yet since there are mostly European saddles in my area.

I also like an old German book, but it is hard to read unless you are used to German and Gothic letters. (It is a reprint from around 1900). (Das Sattler, Riemer und täschnerhandwerk"

There are other books that are advocated as good as well. If you search on this forum for books on saddle making, something will turn up.

The Stohlman book will get you through the process every step of the way. Some of his methods have been mentioned in here to be different from what some use today, but I guess it is only natural that a craft like saddle making slowly evolves too. 

On another note: The tree for the Percheron looks amazing, I would hang that on the wall as well if itr was me 🙂 

Brgds Jonas

Thanks! Stohlman is on the list, though I'm checking with my mom first as she might still have some of my dad's library at home.

Yes the Percheron tree's going to stay on the wall. My dad passed away a couple years ago, and it's been interesting revisiting all the little details he left behind. Lots of stuff that was just "stuff" when he was around, has become much more special telling parts of his story. In a lot of ways, I kick myself for not taking more interest in his saddlemaking days when he was around, but then again he had pretty well moved on from it and most of my time with him was spent learning to build and adjust machines, fabricating, machining, and general trade skills. He tried to stay working as long as he could but his last 10 years were rough (Parkinson's and dementia), so I'm happy to have gotten as much as I did from him. Doing stuff like this is comforting as I feel like he's still there and he's got full use of his mind again, but I get to be his hands.

Edited 16 hours ago by mbnaegle

[mbnaegle]

Got some more of the backstory on the Percheron saddle and tree from my Mom.

A Dan Wagoner was trying to persuade Major Bradley to use draft horses for the LA mounted police for crowd control for the 1986 Olympics, as they were more stable on pavement. They diverted funds and the project never went through, but Dan bought the prototype (pictured) that my Dad made. The tree pictured above was for the same project, it just didn't fit the horse right.

[Mulesaw]

@mbnaegle 

Here's a link to a free pdf on this site about building English saddles. The first link it dead, but the 2nd last comment from a moderator has a working link.
It is completely different from western saddles, but reading a bit about different types can't hurt 🙂

I think it is universal - that it is only when we no longer have a parent, that we think about all the things that we would have liked to ask them about. But being able to touch and use some of the tools that our parents have left us gives a nice feeling (at least for me). Actually using some of my dads everyday tools is when I think about him the most. I guess there is such a strong connection/feeling through tools because it is one of the things that we see our fathers use when we are kids, and we watch him magically transform materials into something unique and beautiful, and somehow that feeling stays with us. 

Brgds Jonas

 

[rktaylor]

The Stohlman book would also be my first recommendation. While I find that I use Harry Adams' book more often, the Stohlman book covers more methods. I hope you continue to share your progress.

Randy